SCCBC Forum - SCCBC Club Points for 2015

Lightning Rod

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #15 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:42pm

Darwin wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

If you want awards that better reflect the full depth of competition that club drivers face why not have them based on the run group in which they face competition: Open Wheel, Closed Wheel 1, Closed Wheel 2, Time Attack, Vintage, and ICSCC groups? Doesn't the SCCBC determine which CACC classes get put together into the run groups?

I actually really like the idea of having per run-group awards. The committee discussed this at length, but we felt it was important to include the ICSCC weekend and therefore their run groups as well. This turned out to be much harder than finding a mapping from CACC classes to ICSCC classes, due to number of classes in each run-group.

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Lightning Rod

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #16 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:56pm

racestec wrote on Feb 13^th, 2015 at 11:25pm:

Some of the guys who normally race together in CACC sanctioned races may be split up under ICSCC class rules. in a hotly contested class this may have a significant impact. The proposal says the best efforts would be made to account for this issue. So my question is, by who? and how? It needs to be spelled out in black and white.

Ray, you're absolutely right. It will need to be spelled out. I went through every SCCBC race over the past 2 year and looked at which classes everyone ran in both CACC and ICSCC races and there weren't any issues. My main problem with coming up with a black and white recommendation was too few data points ... often there was only 1 car in class with either sanctioning body. I know this does not prove there won't be a problem, but I doubt that there will be a big problem if at all.

If there is someone out there who has a good knowledge of the classes from each of these groups, I'd love get your input on a mapping.

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« Last Edit: Feb 15^th, 2015 at 7:51pm by Lightning Rod »

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Darwin

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #17 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 3:28pm

Lightning Rod wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:42pm:

I actually really like the idea of having per run-group awards. The committee discussed this at length, but we felt it was important to include the ICSCC weekend and therefore their run groups as well. This turned out to be much harder than finding a mapping from CACC classes to ICSCC classes, due to number of classes in each run-group.

How about if, instead of the complication of how to map over the ICSCC classes from one weekend onto the CACC classes from 5 weekends, you give out 6 sets of awards? OW, CW1, CW2, TA, & Vintage - 5 sets of awards for the CACC groups, and 1 set of awards for the SCCBC members participating in the ICSCC weekend - consider that weekend one giant run group and do that math based on that. Just tossing ideas out there.

Cheers,
Darwin

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« Last Edit: Feb 15^th, 2015 at 4:35pm by Darwin »

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Darwin

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #18 - Feb 15^th, 2015 at 4:29pm

Lightning Rod wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:37pm:

would people find this more acceptable if you could only drop the scores from races that had you entered?

or if the number was lower ... like 1 or 2 races?

Dropping points (or rather a lack of points - we're talking about dropping a bad result) from a race you attend is only an advantage over someone who didn't attend if you base the championship on the average points per race - in which case, by attending all races and ignoring the lowest 3 you would need to calculate your average points per race on 12 races instead of 15 in order for there to be any advantage. In this case, you're placing more weight on attendance + performance than on reliability.

That certainly promotes attendance, but diminishes the old adage 'to finish first, first you must finish.'

Cheers,
Darwin

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racestec

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #19 - Feb 16^th, 2015 at 10:09am

Another reason the club open wheel and closed wheel championship was structured the way it is, was it allowed people to race in different classes and still accumulate points towards an overall total. A few years back we had a fairly large contingent of drivers who rented cars to race. The structure allowed them to compete in different classes on the various weekends. It is more of a drivers championship with less focus on car and class. A driver who was a little short on points for the closed wheel championship because he was in a class that had fewer regular competitors, could always jump into a car and class that was more hotly contested and gain more points.

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Ray Stec

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Lightning Rod

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #20 - Feb 16^th, 2015 at 11:45am

racestec wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 10:09am:

Another reason the club open wheel and closed wheel championship was structured the way it is, was it allowed people to race in different classes and still accumulate points towards an overall total.

Quote:

A driver who was a little short on points for the closed wheel championship because he was in a class that had fewer regular competitors, could always jump into a car and class that was more hotly contested and gain more points.

The proposed new system would still support this, while, we think, balancing the points awarded between the small a large groups a little more equitably.

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Alan_McColl

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #21 - Feb 16^th, 2015 at 12:20pm

racestec wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 10:09am:

Another reason the club open wheel and closed wheel championship was structured the way it is, was it allowed people to race in different classes and still accumulate points towards an overall total. A few years back we had a fairly large contingent of drivers who rented cars to race. The structure allowed them to compete in different classes on the various weekends. It is more of a drivers championship with less focus on car and class. A driver who was a little short on points for the closed wheel championship because he was in a class that had fewer regular competitors, could always jump into a car and class that was more hotly contested and gain more points.

Only closed wheel would benefit by that because open wheel only has one run group. The proposed change is to make fair for everyone to have a chance at the overall OW-CW which the current system only favors the bigger classes.
As a club we should put more value in recognizing all the class champions at the Awards Banquet because they all fort hard to get there and is that not the time and place to do it. I would put more value on club Awards CACC Awards because we have an awards banquet it's fun everyone has a good time it,s a good social event. CACC awards it,s all business not very social and for the most part the one that show up are there to pick up an award or for rule changes how exciting is that.
Seems to me that most of the members at the AGM liked the proposal.

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racestec Pro Circuit Offline winning isn't everything but losing sucks Posts: 385	Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015 Reply #22 - Feb 16^th, 2015 at 6:38pm CACC used to have an awards banquet. Not enough interest during recent years. Too bad.
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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #23 - Feb 16^th, 2015 at 8:27pm

Quote:

How about if, instead of the complication of how to map over the ICSCC classes from one weekend onto the CACC classes from 5 weekends, you give out 6 sets of awards? OW, CW1, CW2, TA, & Vintage - 5 sets of awards for the CACC groups, and 1 set of awards for the SCCBC members participating in the ICSCC weekend - consider that weekend one giant run group and do that math based on that. Just tossing ideas out there.

IMO, mapping classes would be simpler and more consistent but I wouldn't object to expanding the number of groups in the championship.

I wouldn't want to give up on the proposed class championships. In a straw poll at the AGM, about 75% of the membership in attendance liked the idea of a SCCBC class championship. We can find a way to work out the details on implementation of class mapping.

Personally, I think that SCCBC class championship awards would provide more motivation for drivers to attend club races, they would add more spark and importance to each race, and would make participating in the club overall more rewarding.

I also find the banquet a great event but the awards are always a bit disappointing simply because no recognition of class winners is done, and that's the venue where it should happen. The CACC awards are done at the fall meeting which is not typically well attended, are pretty dry and usually rushed, mainly because it's not the main agenda item and the meeting is not really a social event.

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Lightning Rod Novice Offline Posts: 97	Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015 Reply #24 - Feb 17^th, 2015 at 12:57pm racestec wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 6:38pm: CACC used to have an awards banquet. Not enough interest during recent years. Too bad. I know both SCCBC and CACC have some affiliations that aren't mutual, but given the large overlap, would it make any sense to have a jointly sponsored annual banquet?
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SBR1055

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #25 - Feb 17^th, 2015 at 1:23pm

Doug Floer wrote:
Personally, I think that SCCBC class championship awards would provide more motivation for drivers to attend club races, they would add more spark and importance to each race, and would make participating in the club overall more rewarding.

Hmmm, but the first thing you eliminated was the Sports Racer Championship?

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Lightning Rod

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #26 - Feb 17^th, 2015 at 2:15pm

SBR1055 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Hmmm, but the first thing you eliminated was the Sports Racer Championship?

Hi Shane, I assure you it was nothing against Sports Racers. Over the last 2 years we had a total of 5 entrants in 2 Sports Racer classes. The average number of entries per race was less than 1. We felt there was no reason to expect either of the classes to substantially increase in number (to the 2.4 minimum entries per race). If you have plans that would boost the entrants above the minimum for a championship let us know. We would love to see enough SR cars out there to crown a champion.

As the proposal stands SR classes are not eliminated, they are in with the OW classes. Under this proposal we could have an OW champion from a SR class.

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SBR1055 Spectator Offline Sports Car Rental Posts: 40 Richmond, B.C.	Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015 Reply #27 - Feb 17^th, 2015 at 2:32pm Ok, no problem.
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RSRacer

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #28 - Feb 17^th, 2015 at 5:55pm

Hello All
I feel the class championships should remain with the CACC ,the sanctioning body in BC. This is the group that formulates the rules and CLASSES that we run under. Having Club class champions pretty much duplicates something that already exists. If you are dissatisfied how these awards are presented by the CACC do something about changing that. You could be the CACC banquet co ordinater , or make it more of an event at the CACC AGM . If there were 4 or 5 clubs putting on races in CACC I could see "club class Champions" I reference was made to how ICSCC class and points structure were used as a rough model. As far as I am aware the other ICSCC clubs do not have separate class championships within their clubs.
The last point is regarding awards at the banquet. While it is great to acknowledge the acheivements of the racers and participants this should not be the only focus of the event. We are there to socialize and celebrate another year of successful races. Giving out a boatload of trophies does not attract large numbers of attendees. While there may be a few additional people attending to pick up trophies you will lose as many who don't wish to sit through hours of trophy presentations.
The last ICSCC event is proof of this as their attendance plunged this year. AND there were a very large number of trophies not picked up. and this was not from out of towners but local races in the Seattle area.
While minor tweeking of the club championship set up should always be considered I would not support the proposed changes.

Roland S

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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #29 - Feb 17^th, 2015 at 7:45pm

Quote:

I feel the class championships should remain with the CACC ,the sanctioning body in BC. ... don't wish to sit through hours of trophy presentations. ... Roland S

Yikes, tag teamed by the executive twins! Thanks for chiming in, Roland. I'm hoping more of the membership will hop into the discussion. Most at the AGM seemed to like the prospect of sitting through a banquet full of awards. I suppose one way to address your concern would be by reducing the awards to just first and second places or maybe just first place. In any event, the intention is to improve on the status quo and give club drivers a fairer points system, resulting in an overall better membership experience. Is retaining the status quo what you're advocating? Do you have any suggestions you would like to see implemented that would improve on the current system?

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