I would like to build a JDM car but am curious as to what classes these cars might be placed in. Does anyone have an idea?

Skyline R33 GTS  - RWD 2.5L inline 6 - single turbo
Skyline R33 GTR  - 4WD 2.6L inline 6 - twin turbo
180SX/Silvia S13 - RWD 2.0L inline 4 - single turbo

Appreciate any feedback,

N8

Initially, I'm thinking GTO, but if there were enough brought into Canada you might get into IP1. But, take that with a grain of salt for the moment.

2.0L * 1.4 turbo correction factor = 2.8L = GTM
2.5L * 1.4 turbo correction factor = 3.5L = GTM
2.6L * 1.4 turbo correction factor = 3.64L = GTM

They would all go into GTM.  Typical competitor car would be a 911 GT3 Cup or race prepped E92 M3.

No IP1.  Rule 18.2.D: "Production cars will normally be only those cars that are series produced for
North America in quantities of at least 2000 per model sold."

Thanks, that pretty much kills any chance of being competitive on my budget..

Do you think a JDM FD RX7 would be allowed in IP1?

Technically no, see rule 18.2.D above.  If you're stuck on it being a RHD car, you'll have to race it in one of the GT classes.

That said, I don't know if anybody would care if you did bring a RHD RX7 to IP1.  Bit of a gamble to try it, since if anybody did bother to protest your car, it would clearly be illegal for the class and pretty much impossible to fix.

Not too many people show up for IP1, so you might get a bit lonely out there.  Most races last year there weren't any IP1 cars.  A Corvette Z06 showed up for 2 races out of 7, so did a base model Corvette and a BMW 330is.  There was a 300zx that was there for one race too.  That's about it.

Build a 1.6l Miata or CRX and you can race in IP3, which probably is the biggest group out there with a dozen+ cars at every race.  Or an S2000 in IP2.  You'd have another guy with an S2000 to race against, plus the occasional Integra GS-R or Type-R.

I realize the smaller NA cars are not everybody's cup of tea, but if you're on a tight budget and want close competitive racing it's the best option you have.

Cheers that really puts things into perspective

I suggest renting a bunch of different cars in different classes.  After three years I have settled on a class and had a lot of fun in the process.  Lots of folks in the club have cars to rent from Formula Vees to Hondas and Porsches.  Its the best way to get started and you get to know people along the way....

Ryan

I disagree with your interpretation.

Yes, a Skyline could be protested as it wasn't sold in North America.

However, RX-7's were sold here so whether it is RHD or LHD is irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure there's a guy running a RHD FB RX7 already no?

Our Administrator runs a RHD RX7 but he is in the WSC P2 which is a legal class for that car.

Jordy, for what it's worth, I think you are doing a great job of trying to help people on our site, thank you.
How did your racing go this weekend, I saw you leading one race? :)

I have a RHD 1st Gen RX7 and if I prepped it to the IP rules I'm sure I could run it there without much of a hassle. You'd have to be pretty petty to protest a car based on which side the steering wheel is on as long as the rest of the car was prepped according to the rules.

In my case I put the bigger motor in and upgraded the front brakes so I have to eitehr run in the Westcoast series or run GTM.

Thanks, Keith.

Lug, if you could go buy a RHD RX7 from a dealership in North America back when they were being made, I'd agree with you.  And I agree with Marc that protesting it would be a weenie move.

I also think that knowing the guy protesting is a jerk would be small consolation to the guy being protested.

Like Marc said, WSC is a great place to race pretty much anything that doesn't fit into the IP or GT classes.

Cacc IP rules are as per the Scca IT rules. Cacc rules say that all cars must have been series produced for sale in North America in and a minimum of 2000 units.
The Scca rules say offered for sale in the United States.
I see no minimum numbers here, but they give a list of eligible cars.
Right hand drive cars would not have been series produced for North America.
For Cacc I see this car fitting into the GTs group only.
This means full safety equipment as if the car was prepared for Scca GT classes.

Cacc IT rules:
18 IMPROVED PRODUCTION

18.1 Definition
Improved Production is intended to provide a place for newer models of vehicles to race with minimal preparation other than the installation of standard safety equipment. In addition the cars shall conform to commonly recognized preparation rules to allow
participation in events governed by other sanctioning bodies.

18.2 Rule Compliance
A. All vehicles must comply with the relevant regulations contained within this CACC rulebook, as well as any applicable regulations that may be in the current competition year ASN Sporting Code.
B. Regulations for the preparation of cars competing in this class shall be those published for the current competition year by the Sports Car Club of
America for Improved Touring IT category in the GCR‟s. The regulations shall not include the addendums published in FastTrack during the current competition year.
C. When a conflict exists between the CACC and SCCA rules the CACC requirements shall be considered the requirement.
D. Production cars will normally be only those cars that are series produced for North America in quantities of at least 2000 per model sold.
E. Competitors shall have available at all times, a copy of the manufacturer‟s workshop manual and/or official specifications for the vehicle entered.
F. The onus is at all times upon the competitor to ensure the eligibility of their car. On the other hand a protest against a car, that is for example, based on
the absence of a valve cap or a cigar lighter, will be deemed vexatious.
G. Under unusual circumstances, it may be reasonable to permit a competitor to deviate from an official specification provided such variance would clearly
be of no consequence to either the safety or performance of the affected vehicle. Permission may only be granted by the Chief Steward in consultation with the chief Scrutineer. All variances must be noted in thevehicle logbook and designated „permanent‟ or "temporary‟.

From the 2011 Scca GCR:
9.1.3. IMPROVED TOURING CATEGORY

These specifications are part of the SCCA GCR and all automobiles shall conform with GCR Section 9.

A. PURPOSE
Improved Touring classes are intended to provide the membership with the opportunity to compete in low cost cars with limited modifications, suitable for racing competition. To that end, cars will be models, as
offered for sale in the United States. They will be prepared to manufacturer’s specifications except for modifications permitted by these rules.
Cars from the previous four (4) model years and the current model year will not be eligible. No car older than a 1968 model of any listed vehicle will be accepted for Improved Touring competition. Turbocharged/Supercharged cars are not eligible for Improved Touring competition.

I still disagree, as I think the original intent of the rule was that the make/model had to be sold in North America.


Disputing it over RHD/LHD seems "vexious".  ;)

See the response to the question posed just above yours. That may enlighten you a little.

If the original intent was to allow a make/model sold in North America, the wording should be in one of the old rule books. I don't recall any wording of that nature.
As I recall the first set of IP rules were written in about 1998. The intent then was to word them in such a way to prevent "1 ofs" from competing in this class.
The rules requiring the car to be produced for North America were this way as far back as 2006.
I stick with GTS as the class.

Which is kind of the problem .... the Honda-centric rules from a decade past need to be revisited.  :)  But that's kind of digressing a bit.

Really though, if the JDM equivalent model is essentially the same as the North American version (or anything different on the JDM-spec version would be a legal modification on the NA equivalent) then the RHD version should be allowed.

My 2 cents.    

... I go back to the, if he was sitting on the Left-hand-side of the car instead of the right would you have won the race?

Lug, we're talking about two different things.  You're talking about what the rules *should* be, I am talking about what's actually written in the rulebook.

Again, I agree with you that it would be lame to protest a car just because the driver is on the wrong side.  I would still expect the driver of such a car to lose a protest made against him, simply because it does not meet the letter of the rules.

Go to the next CACC AGM and propose a change that will allow RHD imports into IP, provided that the car is otherwise identical to a model that was sold in North America, and I will gladly vote in favour of the change.

P.S.  For the 1993-1995 RX7, which is the one we're talking about, the JDM car made 10 HP more than the USDM one.  And if 1996+ JDM RX7 were imported, the horsepower difference would be even greater.

;D

It would not take fellow competitor to protest this car. The Scrutineers are very good at the right/left thing.

With the proliferation of JDM cars on the market and their greatly cheaper prices in most cases, I think I will be putting forth a rule change proposal in the fall as mentioned previously.

As with the example of the JDM 3rd gen RX7 having 10 more horsepower, I think that difference can be easily erased with the tuning and other changes allowed for the IP classes. I could see the 1997 and newer RX7's probably not being allowed as those model years were not available in North America.

The idea of having any car that was not designed for the North American market goes against the the original idea of the IP rules. No "one ofs"!! The car you have may not be the best car for the class and it may not even be eligible. Cars that do not fit have an "out" under the current rules.
Cacc race rule 18.2.G

G. Under unusual circumstances, it may be reasonable to permit a competitor to deviate from an official specification provided such variance would clearly
be of no consequence to either the safety or performance of the affected
vehicle. Permission may only be granted by the Chief Steward in consultation with the chief Scrutineer. All variances must be noted in thevehicle logbook and designated "permanent‟ or "temporary‟.

I'll be there....

The rules are written as they are to help ensure competitive fairness amongst the participants. Ensuring competitive fairness also implies the ability to police the vehicles compliance and competitive advantages that would otherwise exist  between two similar vehicles from different domestic production runs. One could make a case for one particular vehicle as being identical in every respect. While I challenge that to be true, the same cannot be said for all vehicles competing in IP, therefore you would be asking for an exception for one vehicle which goes against the spirit of the rule. Further, as mentioned earlier, I would challenge one's ability to prove that every component of a foreign domestic vehicle is exactly the same not only in dimension, but material as well.

Great to see lots of discussion on this topic.

Say I was trying to compete in IP1 with a JDM FD Series 6.. would anyone currently in IP1 protest the car?

If they did.. could I put in a ballast to make it 'even' ?

The rules are as they are written. Wishes for change do not count. RHD cars and other cars that were not produced for the North American market are not eligible for any of the IP classes. GTS is for these cars. The car does not have to be protested to be declared non compliant. The Scrutineers are pretty good at this checking. Adding ballast to make it even is not an option under the current rules.

I would let you run as there is really such a small difference (10 hp) that tuning, set up, and driver would make the difference. And its very easy for the american car to install the jap ecu, turbo wheel and nobody would ever know.  And the specs are only a concern to another competitor with the same stock  north american car competing against you, of which there are EXACTLY ZERO at mission. I will gladly donate some NA spec turbos/ecu's  if that was to be a complaint by anyone.  Those turbos ( jdm and na) are all junk and make very little power.

Lets get the car count up in ip, and the stock turboed rx7 isn't even competitive in ip1 in my experience .

Eventually i would single turbo it, run slicks, lighten it and run gtm/spm. But that adds to the cost for someone starting out.

.

Just a thought, but if you are on a budget you may be better off buying a car that is already legal and has a log book (many are for sale at reasonable prices). Although I know the enjoyment of building a car, I also know the headaches involved. Most first time builders usually do something wrong, this usually adds to the cost (not to mention the time before you get to play).

All that said, if you buy a car that hasn't been raced in a few years you may need to make safety related changes (changes to the roll cage, add a fuel cell or fire system, etcetera) - but this consideration comes into negotiated price. Always make sure you get the log book for a car you buy.

I agree with Jordy.  As a CACC Lic Holder You can propose a rule change and the Lic Holders can vote on on. All JDM Make and models are Completly different cars than the cars sold in North America .  Its not just the driving position,,,,, My Vote would  be NO