Hi all....came across an 88 Mustang lx with a 100% fresh properly done engine for a great deal.

My thought would be to have it ready for IP1 next year at Mission.........I have a million questions. I have gotten a hold of ccac and scca rules and sort of get where I can change and where i cannot.

My first main questions that i would love some advice on;

the car has 16 inch rims - i know i can use up 17in if I wanted. Question i, do I need to add that inch or will the 16's be just the same (love to not have to buy rims), and if so what size/brand tire would you suggest...?

Second is springs and lowering - think I can lower the car 1.5 inch pretty easy......is that the way to go, and any suggestions on spring rates to start would be amazing.

brakes  -think i need to retain 11 inch rotors in the front?.....any suggestions on upgrading calipers with out spending 1000's of dollars.......

trying to get a decent, moderately competitive car put together for DT and next season so i can go out and have fun without breaking the bank. My previous experience has not been to much IP type cars.

Anything would be great.  :)

Thank you!
-Mike

Hi Mike  Glad to hear your coming racing . The rims in my opinion  I would use 17  as 16 the tires in my opinion would be harder to get and most likely more money as they are an odd size 17  are more common so rims and tires will be cheaper . The brakes at mission are so important  you can do almost anything to up grade your brakes ,\.. braking a heavier car  on mission's tight tack is key  I would up grade front and back brakes  calipers and rotors and race pads hawk dtc 70 on the front dct 60 on the rear is what I use . As far as lowering your car   I would , also add some bigger sway bars . some better shocks would help too . hope that helps .... Todd # 124  corvette z06  IP1

I'll second the brakes comment.  My understanding is, you can do anything as long as they bolt to the original caliper mounts and use cast iron rotors.  Cooling ducts are also a big help.  This is where the bigger wheels help - more room for bigger calipers.  And better tire selection.

For suspension, you could upgrade all your bushings to Delrin or Poly & see how it feels before buying springs & sway bars.  Shocks - I think you can't go adjustable in IP but I could be wrong.  For tires, you'll want Hoosier dry & wets ultimately.

Reliability is key as well - and with the higher speeds you'll need better engine cooling.

There are more economical ways to race than IP1, but it's a total gas, for sure!

Cheers, Darwin (IP1 Corvette #43)

just a note re using the car for Driver Training. We have had students who have brought out similar vintage prepared Mustangs and they have been a horror show to teach and learn in. With stripped out interiors and modified exhaust, it is so loud in the car you can't communicate with the instructor. The cars are tricky to get handling well, so an unsorted car is a waste of time to drive and learn on. Even though you are doing your best, an uncooperative car will not highlight your talent. If you have to crawl around the corners because any application of throttle will immediately bring the back end around, it will slow you down so much that the Yugo behind you will be looking for a way around you. Please consider bringing out a totally stock street car. It may not handle the best, but they are designed to be safe and not have any evil handling quirks. Install upgraded brake pads and maybe get some extra cooling to the callipers and have fun and learn. Then when you drive your race car, you will understand what it is doing well and what needs to be corrected.   
Welcome to the world of road racing.

2muchfun247 wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 6:59am:

Hi Mike  Glad to hear your coming racing . The rims in my opinion  I would use 17  as 16 the tires in my opinion would be harder to get and most likely more money as they are an odd size 17  are more common so rims and tires will be cheaper . The brakes at mission are so important  you can do almost anything to up grade your brakes ,\.. braking a heavier car  on mission's tight tack is key  I would up grade front and back brakes  calipers and rotors and race pads hawk dtc 70 on the front dct 60 on the rear is what I use . As far as lowering your car   I would , also add some bigger sway bars . some better shocks would help too . hope that helps .... Todd # 124  corvette z06  IP1

Thanks Todd !! I hear you on rim size and brakes....is your car a drum rear..? I know I should change my rears to disk, just wondering how crucial it is..? Are you using stock brakes, but with cooling ducts and pad and shoe upgrades..?

Also considering changing from pwr brakes to manual...wondering which is better there...

I am sure you know I can easy spend 5k on brakes all the way around, but really only want as much brake as I need.....F1 style brakes are a waste in a production car on DOT tires.

Thanks Todd

Darwin wrote on Oct 13^th, 2014 at 9:20am:

I'll second the brakes comment.  My understanding is, you can do anything as long as they bolt to the original caliper mounts and use cast iron rotors.  Cooling ducts are also a big help.  This is where the bigger wheels help - more room for bigger calipers.  And better tire selection. For suspension, you could upgrade all your bushings to Delrin or Poly & see how it feels before buying springs & sway bars.  Shocks - I think you can't go adjustable in IP but I could be wrong.  For tires, you'll want Hoosier dry & wets ultimately. Reliability is key as well - and with the higher speeds you'll need better engine cooling. There are more economical ways to race than IP1, but it's a total gas, for sure! Cheers, Darwin (IP1 Corvette #43)

Thanks Darwin - hear you on the brakes !
Could you give me a 'model' name or number for the Hoosiers or is that a spec IP1 tire..?

Thanks for the help !
-Mike

racestec wrote on Oct 14^th, 2014 at 8:35am:

just a note re using the car for Driver Training. We have had students who have brought out similar vintage prepared Mustangs and they have been a horror show to teach and learn in. With stripped out interiors and modified exhaust, it is so loud in the car you can't communicate with the instructor. The cars are tricky to get handling well, so an unsorted car is a waste of time to drive and learn on. Even though you are doing your best, an uncooperative car will not highlight your talent. If you have to crawl around the corners because any application of throttle will immediately bring the back end around, it will slow you down so much that the Yugo behind you will be looking for a way around you. Please consider bringing out a totally stock street car. It may not handle the best, but they are designed to be safe and not have any evil handling quirks. Install upgraded brake pads and maybe get some extra cooling to the callipers and have fun and learn. Then when you drive your race car, you will understand what it is doing well and what needs to be corrected.    Welcome to the world of road racing.

Thank you !!
Not sure I will even have the car done my DT and may end up in something else for that by default. Still lots of work to do on my winter project before anything happens.

Thanks again !
-Mike

Mike McGarry wrote on Oct 17^th, 2014 at 3:36pm:

Thanks Darwin - hear you on the brakes ! Could you give me a 'model' name or number for the Hoosiers or is that a spec IP1 tire..? Thanks for the help ! -Mike

I bought a set of Hoosier A6's this year, the R6's take longer to come up to temp but should last longer.  They've also come out with an A7 and R7 this year, from what they say they're even better.  As with all R-compound tires, they're pricey though - expect to drop close to $2k to outfit your Mustang.

I would suggest coming up with a detailed plan and budget for what you need to do to your car (safety equipment to get it through Tech), and what you should do (maintenance and brake upgrades to get it through the race) before you make any major purchases towards what you want to do (go really fast).  I came up with a multi-year plan that works with my budget, and it's going to take all of 5 years or more to get to everything on my IP wish list.  It would have been considerably cheaper to buy a completed, competitive car but I wanted to build my own as part of the total experience.

Cheers,
Darwin

Welcome Garry.
                        Your first good move is coming to the forum for input and advise. Second would be to rid the car of the rear drums. Also consider the performance friction pads they tend not to chew up the rotors. they may cost a little more but work really well. You may have to play around with brake pad brands and compounds to see what works best for you set up but the advise given may give you a good starting point.

cheers RS
                    PS   Please NO NOT use a race car for driver training  I had a student with a similar car in one class. it was not fun. In the rain the car was pretty much undrivable , you could not learn anything  other than how to tippy toe around the track and not spin out in every turn.

Darwin wrote on Oct 18^th, 2014 at 8:02am:

Mike McGarry wrote on Oct 17th, 2014 at 3:36pm: Thanks Darwin - hear you on the brakes ! Could you give me a 'model' name or number for the Hoosiers or is that a spec IP1 tire..? Thanks for the help ! -Mike I bought a set of Hoosier A6's this year, the R6's take longer to come up to temp but should last longer.  They've also come out with an A7 and R7 this year, from what they say they're even better.  As with all R-compound tires, they're pricey though - expect to drop close to $2k to outfit your Mustang. I would suggest coming up with a detailed plan and budget for what you need to do to your car (safety equipment to get it through Tech), and what you should do (maintenance and brake upgrades to get it through the race) before you make any major purchases towards what you want to do (go really fast).  I came up with a multi-year plan that works with my budget, and it's going to take all of 5 years or more to get to everything on my IP wish list.  It would have been considerably cheaper to buy a completed, competitive car but I wanted to build my own as part of the total experience. Cheers, Darwin

Thanks Darwin....looks like 1100 for drys and the same for wets....2000+ yikes...oh well. Do they last more than 1 race..? Can you get a season out of them..?

I am with you on the building . . . very mush enjoy that this time around for sure.

Far as budget  and planning - agreed. Think I have broken down into - 1 safety, 2 Reliability, 3 Speed, 4 More Speed....be happy if I get through 1,2 and maybe half way through 3 by season start....finish up stage 3 through the season and 4 next one - #4 is the expensive stage   :'(

Thanks Darwin !
-Mike

Hi Mike  My corvette has 6 piston baer brakes  14 inch rotors  on the front and and wildwood super lites 4 piston calipers on the back  13  inch rotors cooling ducts front and back .  Hawk dct 70 pads  on the front and dct 60 on the back I can not stress enough how important the brakes are on a heavier high horse power car ,,, you just have to be able to stop . Tires will start to heat cycle out  and will get slower  but yes you can get a whole season out of them., Although I think 2 sets  would be much better , in a perfect world I would have new tires every race weekend ...( not in my budget )  I will also  add Castrol srf  brake fluid is the absolute best  money can buy  it has the highest boiling point of all brake fluids . It is 70  bucks per litre but worth every penny , it is awesome stuff. See Frank at drivers edge he stocks it and is a great guy who  supports grass roots racing and the sccbc , Go see him he has plenty of good insight  and carries all the safety gear you would need ., and can order in  anything  you may need  fo4r your project . The A6 tires are faster than the R6   but the R6  will not heat cycle out as fast as the A6. I like the A6  for race and R6 for practice and qualify  If you only use the A6 for races they might last you the season.   Tire rack in the states has good prices on the hoosiers . Also if you buy new get them pre heat cycled they will last a little longer . Hope this helps. Contact me anytime tschiewe@shaw.ca if you have any questions I can help you with  Todd

---

4 piston Performance Friction calipers & pads all around with 14"/13" rotors.  Cooling ducts from front bumper to front rotors.  ATE dot 4 fluid.  As Todd says, you need to be able to stop.  These brakes completely changed the nature of the car.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/darguy/99%20FRC%20Race%20Prep/DSCN7357.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/darguy/99%20FRC%20Race%20Prep/IMG_2309.jpg

Mike . . . if you want to talk about Mustangs give me a call  . . .  604 538 1718. My son and I have run a fox body for several years now.   regards Dale   

krdale wrote on Oct 21^st, 2014 at 2:16pm:

Mike . . . if you want to talk about Mustangs give me a call  . . .  604 538 1718. My son and I have run a fox body for several years now.   regards Dale

Richard Barg mentioned you...thanks for the note. I will definately give you a call.
Thank you !!!

2muchfun247 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Hi Mike  My corvette has 6 piston baer brakes  14 inch rotors  on the front and and wildwood super lites 4 piston calipers on the back  13  inch rotors cooling ducts front and back .  Hawk dct 70 pads  on the front and dct 60 on the back I can not stress enough how important the brakes are on a heavier high horse power car ,,, you just have to be able to stop . Tires will start to heat cycle out  and will get slower  but yes you can get a whole season out of them., Although I think 2 sets  would be much better , in a perfect world I would have new tires every race weekend ...( not in my budget )  I will also  add Castrol srf  brake fluid is the absolute best  money can buy  it has the highest boiling point of all brake fluids . It is 70  bucks per litre but worth every penny , it is awesome stuff. See Frank at drivers edge he stocks it and is a great guy who  supports grass roots racing and the sccbc , Go see him he has plenty of good insight  and carries all the safety gear you would need ., and can order in  anything  you may need  fo4r your project . The A6 tires are faster than the R6   but the R6  will not heat cycle out as fast as the A6. I like the A6  for race and R6 for practice and qualify  If you only use the A6 for races they might last you the season.   Tire rack in the states has good prices on the hoosiers . Also if you buy new get them pre heat cycled they will last a little longer . Hope this helps. Contact me anytime tschiewe@shaw.ca if you have any questions I can help you with  Todd

Thanks for all the info Todd ! Glad to hear the tires have more than 30 laps of life !! Need to plan accordingly on the brakes. I will defo be reaching out to you once I get past the gutting, adding cage and seat stage. Car is Auto too...so a T5 is in the works too. Hope to have those stages done by xmas, and work on susp and brakes early calendar year.
Thanks Again !
-Mike

2muchfun247 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2014 at 7:28am:

Hi Mike  My corvette has 6 piston baer brakes  14 inch rotors  on the front and and wildwood super lites 4 piston calipers on the back  13  inch rotors cooling ducts front and back .  Hawk dct 70 pads  on the front and dct 60 on the back I can not stress enough how important the brakes are on a heavier high horse power car ,,, you just have to be able to stop . Tires will start to heat cycle out  and will get slower  but yes you can get a whole season out of them., Although I think 2 sets  would be much better , in a perfect world I would have new tires every race weekend ...( not in my budget )  I will also  add Castrol srf  brake fluid is the absolute best  money can buy  it has the highest boiling point of all brake fluids . It is 70  bucks per litre but worth every penny , it is awesome stuff. See Frank at drivers edge he stocks it and is a great guy who  supports grass roots racing and the sccbc , Go see him he has plenty of good insight  and carries all the safety gear you would need ., and can order in  anything  you may need  fo4r your project . The A6 tires are faster than the R6   but the R6  will not heat cycle out as fast as the A6. I like the A6  for race and R6 for practice and qualify  If you only use the A6 for races they might last you the season.   Tire rack in the states has good prices on the hoosiers . Also if you buy new get them pre heat cycled they will last a little longer . Hope this helps. Contact me anytime tschiewe@shaw.ca if you have any questions I can help you with  Todd

GORGEOUS car by the way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darwin wrote on Oct 20^th, 2014 at 9:18am:

4 piston Performance Friction calipers & pads all around with 14"/13" rotors.  Cooling ducts from front bumper to front rotors.  ATE dot 4 fluid.  As Todd says, you need to be able to stop.  These brakes completely changed the nature of the car. http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/darguy/99%20FRC%20Race%20Prep/DSCN7357.jpg http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/darguy/99%20FRC%20Race%20Prep/IMG_2309.jpg

Thanks so much for the pics and detail Darwin....cant wait to meet you all at the track !!!

update;

interior stripped and ready for cage and seat mount,
dash refurbed,
removable steering wheel in,
T5 in (will sort gear selector when seat is in),
pedals modified for my short self,
exhaust going in tomarrow...
i have a line on a good deal for cobra front brakes and 94/95 spindles..........

close on starting to have direction on rear disc conversion.

need some cheap 17 inch wheels so I can get some rubber on.

Since I am an ex stock car driver, Bassett wheels have a place in my heart. Strong, cheap, but heavy...

Anyone have any other ideas on wheels - used/cheap is good...not building a show car  ;) And some cheap used street rubber to just get it on the road would be perfect..

I will post pics when it starts to look better :)

thanks for all the help !!!!!!!!

Coil overs in IP1...?

Hi all...the rules are confusing me...says springs have to be in stock location, but coil overs are ok.

Anyone know if I can convert 88 Mustang to coil over...?

Thanks !!!
-Mike

Ip1 no coil overs if it did bot come with it .... Ipe you can use coil overs

      yes IP1    can use coilovers  aslong as in the same location as stock springs

Fastist12 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2014 at 8:13pm:

yes IP1    can use coilovers  aslong as in the same location as stock springs

ok...so Maximum Motorsports has a coil over kit....but the spring in that case is on the strut that is mounted in its stock location.....

are you saying the spring needs to remain in the stock location, and the strut can be repositioned ...?

Sorry...just want to confirm...and I have not seen any like that...any advice on a brand would be great.

2muchfun247 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2014 at 6:51pm:

Ip1 no coil overs if it did bot come with it .... Ipe you can use coil overs

ok....well the 88 mustang did not come stock with....guess that is a bit easier on the race car prep budget

Ok....   Fist thing in a car built to class is the Preperation rules
IP Uses the SCCA IT Rules for Car Prep
CACC Has some allowances to those rules Example Brakes ,,,Weight,, 
Thats in the CACC Race Regs

You Coil ajust the spring,Ibach springs in any poundage you desire, and put in performance shocks,in there location, 

Here is the Rule on Springs and shocks

b. Springs and Shock Absorbers
1. Shock absorbers may be replaced provided that the
replacements (a) attach to the original mounting points,
and (b) are of a non-remote-reservoir design. The number
and type (e.g., tube, lever, etc.) of shock absorbers
shall be the same as stock. The interchange of gas and
hydraulic shock absorbers is permitted. External adjustments
of shock control shall be limited to two (2). No
shock absorber may be capable of adjustment while the
car is in motion.
2. MacPherson strut equipped cars may substitute struts,
and /or may use alternate inserts. Spring seat ride height
location may be altered from stock. Remote reservoir
struts and/or inserts are prohibited. External adjustments
of shock control shall be limited to two (2).
3. Springs of any origin may be used, provided they are of
the same number and type as originally fitted, i.e., coil,
leaf, torsion bar, and that they shall be installed in the original
location using the original system of attachment. The
joining of two or more coil springs by any means is prohibited.
The use of tender springs are permitted. Shackles
or spacers may be used to adjust leaf spring ride height.
Spacers, including threaded units with adjustable spring
seats, may be used with coil springs. Coil over threaded
body shock/struts are permitted.
4. Spacers or lowering blocks may be used between leaf
springs and the point(s) of attachment to the axle housing.

Hope this helps
end the confusion
The SCCA rule book is on linehere

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/assets/2014%20GCR%20June1.pdf

ok thanks for posting that clip of the rules !

I think the way I am reading that means no coil overs in my car as that would relocate the springs outboard of their original stock location, but I can improve shocks and struts and springs from oe stock.....guess that is a plus budget wise.

Have been looking at scca IT-R rules as I think that is IP1 in Canada..? Have track rules as well which it pretty much looks like to me say follow scca rules + a few adjustments such as brakes in a good way and other bits. Does ccac ( think is another sanctioning body..?) have other specific rules that impact the car itself..?
have not had any luck finding that document..?

The 2014 CACC regulations are available on the CACC website. There have been some changes to the regulations which have been proposed at the Fall AGM, but will not be ratified until the Spring Meeting in March.

Mike

Uh oh…think I blew it with the cage….I was under the impression that I followed SCCA rules. What is pasted below is the Minimum tubing and wall thickess requirements…..So I went with 1.625 at .135 wall thickness as it exceeds the requirement of .120 wall thickness.
Having just found the CACC rules, (pasted at bottom), it stipulates 1.75 inch minimum diameter pipe at .095 wall thickness….1.625 is not listed.

SCCA
Vehicle Weight Material Without Driver Mild Steel Alloy Steel
Up to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 1.375 x .080
1500-2500 lbs. 1.50 x .095 1.375 x .095
Over 2500 lbs. 1.50 x .120, 1.50 x .095, 1.625 x .120, 1.75 x .095

CACC
Vehicle Weight as Raced With Driver
Tubing Size (inches) (outer diameter x wall thickness)
Up to 1700 lbs 1.375" X .080"
1701 –2699 lbs 1.500" X .095"
2700 lbs and up 1.750" X .095"

Does that mean the roll cage kit I just bought will not be acceptable to race at Mission……?

I've sent you a PM.

Mike

Roll cages are tricky.  I designed mine to pass CACC, SCCA, and NASA regs.  That meant going a bit more than any one required in three different directions.

The Tech guys will help you to build a legal car, but you've got to immerse yourself in the rule book(s) in order to wrap your head around the permutations.

Got a couple questions for you - what year is your car, what's the curb weight of your car in stock trim, displacement, and factory HP?  I'm not super familiar with Mustangs - are there trim options for that year that make weight and power differences?

Cheers,
Darwin

Thanks Darwin....I was pretty proud of myself how deep I went into the rule - reading rules and instructions are not one of my strong suits....problem was that I missed an entire sanctioning body.  :-/ Tech guys are on the case !

Car is an 88 Mustang LX...curb weight is 3100lbs and HP is an eye shaking 225....be looking for tows down the straight for sure. Far as trim packages, I think there was GT and some Saleen options...think the GT added a few hundred pounds and a bit of HP but not sure where that came from......not sure on Saleen. think that was mainly front air dam and rear spoiler.