Thanks everyone for your feedback on our proposal at the club meeting last night.  We were very pleased with the positive response we received. 

At the next meeting we are hoping to present the final revision to the membership for a vote to adopt the new system for the 2015 year.

There were a number of suggestions for clarifications to the definitions, all of which we are going include in our updated proposal.

I'd like to get some wider feedback on a couple of concerns raised by members at the meeting:
1) the current system does not count non-club members when determining your finishing position.   The proposed system would count "visitors".  We believe that everyone who turns up to an event should count.   This has several effects, firstly if you raced against a visitor and they get first place we feel you have earned second place.  Secondly for a small class if you beat the visitor you get the points for beating them and thirdly their presence would count toward average number participants per race for the year getting your class closer to the required minimum.

2) We have proposed that one race weekend's points (3 races) would be dropped allowing people who miss a weekend for mechanical or personal reasons remain competitive.  Some members believe that every race should count.

If anyone would like raise any additional issues or comment on the ones mentioned here, please feel free to contact me or Doug or to follow up in this thread.

Thanks.
Rod.

The proposal can be downloaded here: http://www.sccbc.net/data/2015/2015%20Awards%20and%20Points%20Review.pdf

Lightning Rod wrote on Feb 12^th, 2015 at 3:49pm:

I'd like to get some wider feedback on a couple of concerns raised by members at the meeting: 1) the current system does not count non-club members when determining your finishing position.   The proposed system would count "visitors".  We believe that everyone who turns up to an event should count.   This has several effects, firstly if you raced against a visitor and they get first place we feel you have earned second place.  Secondly for a small class if you beat the visitor you get the points for beating them and thirdly their presence would count toward average number participants per race for the year getting your class closer to the required minimum. Good idea, that gives a better representation of the actual performance. 2) We have proposed that one race weekend's points (3 races) would be dropped allowing people who miss a weekend for mechanical or personal reasons remain competitive.  Some members believe that every race should count. The proposal states "the lowest scoring 3 races will be dropped" - that is not necessarily the same thing as dropping one race weekend's points due to absence.  The lowest 3 scoring races could be spread over 3 different weekends if someone has 100% attendance.  Which do you propose? If anyone would like raise any additional issues or comment on the ones mentioned here, please feel free to contact me or Doug or to follow up in this thread. Thanks. Rod.

I'm not sure what the motivation for having the SCCBC class award calculated nearly identically to the CACC award is.  Let's say 2 car/drivers in a given class finish consistently 1-2, and Driver 1 misses a weekend while Driver 2 doesn't.  In this new points scenario (dropping the worst 3 results) Driver 1 wins both CACC and SCCBC.  If you don't drop the worst 3 results, Driver 1 wins CACC and Driver 2 wins SCCBC.

Cheers,
Darwin

Darwin, we intend for the lowest scoring 3 races over the year to be dropped.  We settled on 3 races so that a driver could miss a single weekend with minimal penalty.

This still offers a slight advantage to a driver who attends every weekend.

As to the parallel between the CACC and SCCBC per class awards: you are correct they become very similar.  This is more complicated.  Our problem is, that we'd like to see per class awards at the SCCBC level especially for recognition at the annual banquet.  My understanding is that the CACC system is in the CACC rules and rule change submissions for this year are long gone, so we have no ability to change the CACC system for this year.  We decided to put forward the proposal that we thought was best for SCCBC for this year.  Then, depending on how this works this year, we could propose a CACC rule change for next year.

Lightning Rod wrote on Feb 12^th, 2015 at 5:58pm:

As to the parallel between the CACC and SCCBC per class awards: you are correct they become very similar.  This is more complicated.  Our problem is, that we'd like to see per class awards at the SCCBC level especially for recognition at the annual banquet.  My understanding is that the CACC system is in the CACC rules and rule change submissions for this year are long gone, so we have no ability to change the CACC system for this year.  We decided to put forward the proposal that we thought was best for SCCBC for this year.  Then, depending on how this works this year, we could propose a CACC rule change for next year.

Thanks for the clarification and info, Rod.

So, at the risk of coming across as a complete pain in the a$$, I take it that the primary motivation for changing the points rules and awards structure of the SCCBC is that the recognition of the CACC class awards are not given at the SCCBC banquet?  This doesn't seem to be sufficient reason to abandon the current structure in favour of functionally cloning the CACC awards.

What changes would you propose for the CACC next year?

I get that the closed wheel SCCBC award might benefit from some review (awards for each run group, perhaps?) - but I don't see the benefit to this proposal.

My 2c worth.

Cheers,
Darwin

The primary motivation for the review of the points system, was to address several requests to review the fairness of the current system.  We did quite a lot of analysis of how points were assigned over the last 2 years ... here is a sample of some issues we found.

Our session with largest number of cars of a single class was 15.  The winner of that race was awarded 16 points - 9 points for winning plus 7 points being in front of 14 cars.  However a typical race for most of our drivers would only have 3 to 6 cars per class. Giving the winner 10 to 12.5 points per race.  This meant that drivers in our smaller classes (which is more than 50% of the club) could not realistically expect to win the championship.

The other issue we are trying to address is the large number of single car races over last few years.   We hope the new system will encourage drivers, who have choice in which class they run, to join together into larger groups.  Under the new system a lone driver in a class will get 19 points.  If they join a class with 3 other cars, they are still guaranteed at least 19 points but with the potential of getting 25.  We were not wanting to be punitive to drivers who don't have a choice but to run with small numbers, but we hope to encourage consolidation where possible.

Having developed a system that tracks points on a per class basis, it was a logical extension to give out per class awards too, based on those points, with the added benefit of making them relevant at the banquet.

With regards to the CACC system: our mandate was to look at the SCCBC points system so our committee did not discuss CACC changes and have no specific recommendation regarding CACC points or awards at this time.

Quote:

So, at the risk of coming across as a complete pain in the a$$, I take it that the primary motivation for changing the points rules and awards structure of the SCCBC is that the recognition of the CACC class awards are not given at the SCCBC banquet?  This doesn't seem to be sufficient reason to abandon the current structure in favour of functionally cloning the

Darwin, there are multiple reasons for introducing club-based class championships. A big one, for sure, is to liven up the annual banquet. An SCCBC club championship gives the drivers something additional to strive for, but, more importantly, it better reflects the full depth of competition that club drivers face. Let's put it this way. If there were no class championship awards at CACC, and both SCCBC and CACC were proposing to introduce them, which set of championships would be more representative of the full breadth of competition for club members? SCCBC championships, naturally.

The fact that CACC already has class championships shouldn't negate the fact that they would also be great at the club level. I doubt they will ever be a completely identical set of winners between CACC and SCCBC awards, and if there are, where's the harm in that? The objective is to improve the experience of our club members who participate in the full slate of races put on by SCCBC, and this accomplishes exactly that.

You may think you wouldn't be interested in an SCCBC class championship trophy, but I'll bet you a dollar that you'll be there in your Sunday best at the banquet to pick up your trophy the very first time you earn one, and with a great big smile on your face.

Most club members we've spoken to admit that the current point system is flawed and would like to see it changed. This is one of those rare opportunities where a few took the initiative to improve the process for the benefit of the club as a whole. If you don't like what's being proposed, we'd love to hear some constructive suggestions.

Thanks for the detail, Rod.  I can appreciate how much work goes into all this; I don't mean to antagonize, just engage in the discussion.  One could do a PhD thesis on the History of Points Allocation in Motorsports & Perceived Fairness - and still not get agreement from a room full of drivers!

Here are some of my thoughts.  Presently, points are allocated based on attendance + reliability + performance, and in the case of the 1/2 points for the drivers you finish ahead of, performance relative to the size of the field.  You need all 3 components (or 4) to score points.  If you remove the worst 3 races from the equation, you're placing more weight on performance than attendance and reliability - which is fine, if that is the intention and people agree that this should be weighted more heavily.

For the relative performance component, I like what you're suggesting.  Basically, by awarding full points to a class with 4+ starters (with a sliding scale down with lower class attendance), and no additional points beyond that, you are addressing the 'class of 1' issue while making it possible for entrants in mid-size classes to compete for the championship.  Again, the point where points drop off, and how fast could be debated - but not by me.

That being said, I don't see the need to award by class in SCCBC if CACC already is.  I do like the idea of having awards that transcend the class divisions, particularly because that is how our racing happens on the track.  Which I'll address in my next post...

Cheers,
Darwin

My $0.02.. I'm in favor of the change other than the points/3 race drop. The way I see it, there are 2 types of drivers. Those that run for "fun", and those who run for championships / points. If you're committed to challenging for a championship, part of that (to me) is committing to show up.  Unless I'm missing something, I don't like the idea of showing up.. paying to race..then having my points taken away. While someone who doesn't show up, loses nothing.

Thanks,

I hope we do not have to drop 3 races worth of points but I will try my best all year long no matter what is decided.

Thanks to the guys who put their heads together to come up with this proposal.
I do have some concerns. First is the near duplication of class awards with CACC. Until we get more tracks and host clubs, I'm not really in favour of this part of the proposal. Second, the classes in CACC can be quite different from ICSCC, but both will count towards club class championships. Some of the guys who normally race together in CACC sanctioned races may be split up under ICSCC class rules. in a hotly contested class this may have a significant  impact. The proposal says the best efforts would be made to account for this issue. So my question is, by who? and how? It needs to be spelled out in black and white. 

Thanks for the feedback Doug.  I agree that a club championship gives drivers something additional to strive for (other than the CACC class championship), and that it could better reflect the full depth of competition that club drivers face.

But, I disagree that if there were no class championship awards at CACC, and both SCCBC and CACC were proposing to introduce them, that the SCCBC would be the natural choice.  They are CACC classes - that body defines them and determines the rules that must be adhered to to compete in them.  Why wouldn't they be the natural choice to give out awards?

You doubt that there will be identical class winners between CACC and the SCCBC awards, but the only difference is dropping the lowest 3 scoring races (which it appears has some very justifiable and vocal opposition - here's another: it doesn't promote higher attendance, which is bad all around), and some possible as yet undefined cross-pollination from the ICSCC.  There may be no harm, but I don't see any benefit either.

If the objective is to improve the experience of our club members who participate in the full slate of races put on by SCCBC, my constructive suggestion is this: modify the existing Group Championships and stay away from the largely redundant Class Championships.

If you want awards that better reflect the full depth of competition that club drivers face why not have them based on the run group in which they face competition: Open Wheel, Closed Wheel 1, Closed Wheel 2, Time Attack, Vintage, and ICSCC groups?  Doesn't the SCCBC determine which CACC classes get put together into the run groups?  So, the natural choice seems to be for the SCCBC to award the best drivers in those groups.  Base it on the proposed 1-4+ cars per class sliding scale of points, but run group specific (in the existing proposal, someone running in both CW1 and CW2 would only get recognition for one of those, which ignores half of their efforts).

6c worth.

Cheers,
DO

SCCBC O/A Championships   Should be to Club Members,Non member points just go away,   There are no drop races in any pro series, EG,,,,10 races  10 sets of points = 1 winner Thats racing

Yes, only SCCBC Club Members would be eligible for Class or Group Awards. Non-SCCBC drivers racing with us at Mission would receive the usual race event trophies if they made the podium, but no points for the club championship.

Curt, for pro racing, I agree; every race counts and having well equiped pit and a spare car is part of the price of entry.  We are not pro racers.   For many of us, there are no spare cars or even a pit crew on many week-ends.   On any day my car could break, or be broken by anyone else on the track ... and I accept that risk.  There is never a shortage of hands to help me get my car back to being race ready, but one fender-bender during Saturday's practice could easily end any one of my weekends.
I think as club racers we don't need to be held to the  professional standard.

Darwin wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

... dropping the lowest 3 scoring races (which it appears has some very justifiable and vocal opposition - here's another: it doesn't promote higher attendance, which is bad all around)

would people find this more acceptable if you could only drop the scores from races that had you entered?

or if the number was lower ... like 1 or 2 races?

Darwin wrote on Feb 14^th, 2015 at 10:56am:

If you want awards that better reflect the full depth of competition that club drivers face why not have them based on the run group in which they face competition: Open Wheel, Closed Wheel 1, Closed Wheel 2, Time Attack, Vintage, and ICSCC groups?  Doesn't the SCCBC determine which CACC classes get put together into the run groups?

I actually really like the idea of having per run-group awards.  The committee discussed this at length, but we felt it was important to include the ICSCC weekend and therefore their run groups as well.  This turned out to be much harder than finding a mapping from CACC classes to ICSCC classes, due to number of classes in each run-group.

racestec wrote on Feb 13^th, 2015 at 11:25pm:

Some of the guys who normally race together in CACC sanctioned races may be split up under ICSCC class rules. in a hotly contested class this may have a significant  impact. The proposal says the best efforts would be made to account for this issue. So my question is, by who? and how? It needs to be spelled out in black and white.

Ray, you're absolutely right.  It will need to be spelled out.  I went through every SCCBC race over the past 2 year and looked at which classes everyone ran in both CACC and ICSCC races and there weren't any issues.  My main problem with coming up with a black and white recommendation was too few data points ... often there was only 1 car in class with either sanctioning body.    I know this does not prove there won't be a problem, but I doubt that there will be a big problem if at all.

If there is someone out there who has a good knowledge of the classes from each of these groups, I'd love get your input on a mapping.

Lightning Rod wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:42pm:

I actually really like the idea of having per run-group awards.  The committee discussed this at length, but we felt it was important to include the ICSCC weekend and therefore their run groups as well.  This turned out to be much harder than finding a mapping from CACC classes to ICSCC classes, due to number of classes in each run-group.

How about if, instead of the complication of how to map over the ICSCC classes from one weekend onto the CACC classes from 5 weekends, you give out 6 sets of awards?  OW, CW1, CW2, TA, & Vintage - 5 sets of awards for the CACC groups, and 1 set of awards for the SCCBC members participating in the ICSCC weekend - consider that weekend one giant run group and do that math based on that.  Just tossing ideas out there.

Cheers,
Darwin

Lightning Rod wrote on Feb 15^th, 2015 at 1:37pm:

would people find this more acceptable if you could only drop the scores from races that had you entered? or if the number was lower ... like 1 or 2 races?

Dropping points (or rather a lack of points - we're talking about dropping a bad result) from a race you attend is only an advantage over someone who didn't attend if you base the championship on the average points per race - in which case, by attending all races and ignoring the lowest 3 you would need to calculate your average points per race on 12 races instead of 15 in order for there to be any advantage.  In this case, you're placing more weight on attendance + performance than on reliability.

That certainly promotes attendance, but diminishes the old adage 'to finish first, first you must finish.'

Cheers,
Darwin

Another reason the club open wheel and closed wheel championship was structured the way it is, was it allowed people to race in different classes and still accumulate points towards an overall total.  A few years back we had a fairly large contingent of drivers who rented cars to race. The structure allowed them to compete in different classes on the various weekends. It is more of a drivers championship with less focus on car and class. A driver who was a little short on points for the closed wheel championship because he was in a class that had fewer regular competitors, could always jump into a car and class that was more hotly contested and gain more points. 

racestec wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 10:09am:

Another reason the club open wheel and closed wheel championship was structured the way it is, was it allowed people to race in different classes and still accumulate points towards an overall total.

Quote:

A driver who was a little short on points for the closed wheel championship because he was in a class that had fewer regular competitors, could always jump into a car and class that was more hotly contested and gain more points.

The proposed new system would still support this,  while, we think, balancing the points awarded between the small a large groups a little more equitably.

racestec wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 10:09am:

Another reason the club open wheel and closed wheel championship was structured the way it is, was it allowed people to race in different classes and still accumulate points towards an overall total.  A few years back we had a fairly large contingent of drivers who rented cars to race. The structure allowed them to compete in different classes on the various weekends. It is more of a drivers championship with less focus on car and class. A driver who was a little short on points for the closed wheel championship because he was in a class that had fewer regular competitors, could always jump into a car and class that was more hotly contested and gain more points.

Only closed wheel would benefit by that because open wheel only has one run group. The proposed change is to make fair for everyone to have a chance at the overall OW-CW which the current system only favors the bigger classes.
As a club we should put more value in recognizing all the class champions at the Awards Banquet because they all fort hard to get there and is that not the time and place to do it. I would put more value on club Awards CACC Awards because we have an awards banquet it's fun everyone has a good time it,s a good social event. CACC awards it,s all business not very social and for the most part the one that show up are there to pick up an award or for rule changes how exciting is that.
Seems to me that most of the members at the AGM liked the proposal.

CACC used to have an awards banquet. Not enough interest during recent years. Too bad.

Quote:

How about if, instead of the complication of how to map over the ICSCC classes from one weekend onto the CACC classes from 5 weekends, you give out 6 sets of awards?  OW, CW1, CW2, TA, & Vintage - 5 sets of awards for the CACC groups, and 1 set of awards for the SCCBC members participating in the ICSCC weekend - consider that weekend one giant run group and do that math based on that.  Just tossing ideas out there.

IMO, mapping classes would be simpler and more consistent but I wouldn't object to expanding the number of groups in the championship.

I wouldn't want to give up on the proposed class championships. In a straw poll at the AGM, about 75% of the membership in attendance liked the idea of a SCCBC class championship. We can find a way to work out the details on implementation of class mapping.

Personally, I think that SCCBC class championship awards would provide more motivation for drivers to attend club races, they would add more spark and importance to each race, and would make participating in the club overall more rewarding.

I also find the banquet a great event but the awards are always a bit disappointing simply because no recognition of class winners is done, and that's the venue where it should happen. The CACC awards are done at the fall meeting which is not typically well attended, are pretty dry and usually rushed, mainly because it's not the main agenda item and the meeting is not really a social event.

racestec wrote on Feb 16^th, 2015 at 6:38pm:

CACC used to have an awards banquet. Not enough interest during recent years. Too bad.

I know both SCCBC and CACC have some affiliations that aren't mutual, but given the large overlap, would it make any sense to have a jointly sponsored annual banquet?

Doug Floer wrote:
Personally, I think that SCCBC class championship awards would provide more motivation for drivers to attend club races, they would add more spark and importance to each race, and would make participating in the club overall more rewarding.


Hmmm, but the first thing you eliminated was the Sports Racer Championship?

SBR1055 wrote on Feb 17^th, 2015 at 1:23pm:

Hmmm, but the first thing you eliminated was the Sports Racer Championship?

Hi Shane,  I assure you it was nothing against Sports Racers.    Over the last 2 years we had a total of 5 entrants in 2 Sports Racer classes.  The average number of entries per race was less than 1.  We felt there was no reason to expect either of the classes to substantially increase in number (to the 2.4 minimum entries per race).  If you have plans that would boost the entrants above the minimum for a championship let us know.  We would love to see enough SR cars out there to crown a champion.

As the proposal stands SR classes are not eliminated, they are in with the OW classes.  Under this proposal we could have an OW champion from a SR class.

Ok, no problem.  8-)

Hello All
              I feel the class championships should remain with the CACC ,the sanctioning body in BC. This is the group that formulates the rules and CLASSES that we run under. Having Club class champions pretty much duplicates something that already exists. If you are dissatisfied how these awards are presented by the CACC do something about changing that. You could be the CACC banquet co ordinater , or make it more of an event at the CACC  AGM .  If there were 4 or 5 clubs putting on races in CACC I could  see "club class  Champions"   I reference was made to how ICSCC class and points structure were used as a rough model. As far as I am aware the other ICSCC clubs do not have separate class championships within their clubs.
  The last point is regarding awards at the banquet. While it is great to acknowledge the acheivements of the racers and participants this should not be the only focus of the event. We are there to socialize and celebrate another year of successful races. Giving out a boatload of trophies does not attract large numbers of attendees. While there may be a few additional people attending to pick up trophies you will lose as many who don't wish to sit through hours of trophy presentations.
  The last ICSCC event is proof of this as their attendance plunged  this year. AND there were a very large number of trophies not picked up.  and this was not from out of towners but local races in the Seattle area.
  While minor tweeking of the club championship set up should always be considered I would not support the proposed changes.

Roland S

Quote:

I feel the class championships should remain with the CACC ,the sanctioning body in BC. ... don't wish to sit through hours of trophy presentations. ... Roland S

Yikes, tag teamed by the executive twins! Thanks for chiming in, Roland. I'm hoping more of the membership will hop into the discussion. Most at the AGM seemed to like the prospect of sitting through a banquet full of awards. I suppose one way to address your concern would be by reducing the awards to just first and second places or maybe just first place. In any event, the intention is to improve on the status quo and give club drivers a fairer points system, resulting in an overall better membership experience. Is retaining the status quo what you're advocating? Do you have any suggestions you would like to see implemented that would improve on the current system?

Good evening all,

Having watched the proceedings on this thread, and others, I felt that I’d put my couple of pennies in too. Can’t hurt, right? It’s a free and democratic society! I apologize in advance for the lengthy post, nor do I intend to offend anyone, just my point of view …… ☺

Firstly on the topic of awards. I am glad that I’m not the only one who finds the CACC presentation “dry”. So I would like to propose that since the SCCBC has the Banquet and the CACC have the Class awards, that the executives of these two groups get together and agree to amalgamate the presentation of said Class awards into the aforementioned Banquet. Voila, two birds ….. one stone!

I further believe that the executive of the SCCBC should allow for either awards, or at least recognition, for EVERY member who races in a series outside of CACC (ICSCC, SCCA etc.) who achieves any success in their respective classes and / or for being the “highest placed” SCCBC member in (for example) ICSCC Spec Miata ….. or SCCA FV …… etc.  This would be in addition to the award that is given to the member who competes on an “international level”, or however that one goes ……. The onus would be on members to inform the executive of their “success”, in order to be recognised.

As a club member and an amateur racer I have to say that I could care less about the SCCBC championship. My goal is to do as well as I can within the CACC Class that I am running in. That being said, even if I don’t do well in my class, I still have my biggest trophy ….. my race car, which I am so pleased and proud to own, show off and race. I will add that I have spoken to at least 4 other drivers in the past weeks, about this topic, and they all have very similar sentiments.

Continued in the next post …… 

The current SCCBC system is flawed and if it is to stay, it needs some tweaking, not necessarily re-inventing. That being said, if I were to be interested in running for this championship I would not agree to drop any races. If I make the effort and sacrifice to race every weekend I don’t see why I should have to give up hard earned points. On the other hand if the wheels fall off every race weekend and I DNF each race …….. that’s racing! Or if I have other commitments and can’t make it …… that’s life ……..

What we are doing here is grass roots, club racing. As far as I know none of us are being paid to drive, where our livelihood is at stake. Also, there are unfortunately no big carrots out there for us, in terms of tens of thousands of dollars in prize money, and there are no talent scouts from NASCAR, Indy or F1 sitting in the bleachers. So what does winning the club championship do for a driver? I know of at least 2 who “spent themselves” in winning it, to the point that their racing future was in doubt for the following year. I believe that if anything is to be re-vamped, it should be the “reward for winning”  (and again I’d go with the CACC class championships).

For example; the winner of each class could get 100% off Race Entries for the following year, 2nd place 50% off and 3rd place 25% …….. “The Club” should work on sponsors (like KMS, Toyo etc., etc.) to provide monetary awards to 1st, 2nd & 3rd in class.

Finally, I think that any proposed changes to the Club Championship be brought up and discussed at the first drivers meeting of the year, where you are more likely to have a better representation of those who are affected by the proposed changes. I, for one am not able to make club meetings because I’m working to pay for my racing addiction ……

I like the following year rewards idea although Pro3's suggestion is a little excessive; 3,2,1 race entries for 1st,2nd,3rd would still be a nice prize!

PRO3 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:25pm:

The current SCCBC system is flawed and if it is to stay, it needs some tweaking, not necessarily re-inventing. That being said, if I were to be interested in running for this championship I would not agree to drop any races.

I think the consensus is that the provision to drop one race weekend will be removed from the proposal.


Quote:

On the other hand if the wheels fall off every race weekend and I DNF each race …….. that’s racing!

You're referring to the single point for a DNF? Personally, I think that someone who goes through all the trouble of loading up their car for the weekend, makes practice and qualifying, then fails to finish the race should get something more than the member who makes no effort and leaves their car in the garage. One point isn't going to hurt anyone, especially when the race winner gets 25.


Quote:

... the winner of each class could get 100% off Race Entries for the following year, 2nd place 50% off and 3rd place 25% ...

I'd suggest you bring that up as a separate proposal after this one has been dealt with.


Quote:

any proposed changes to the Club Championship be brought up and discussed at the first drivers meeting of the year

Can't vote at a driver's meeting. You need to come to the club meetings if you want to discuss and vote on the issues. That's what they're for.


Quote:

... SCCBC should allow for either awards, or at least recognition, for EVERY member who races in a series outside of CACC ...

Impossible to police. Every event that SCCBC *hosts* makes more sense, which is the basis for what we're proposing. Currently it encompasses CACC and ICSCC races but allows for future expansion. Tying the class championship award to CACC limits us to just CACC-sanctioned races.

Here's the excerpt from the AGM minutes on the points and awards proposal:

Doug Floer provided some background and described the proposal put forward by the Awards and Points System Review committee. The proposed awards and points system was the recommendation of a committee formed by the executive to evaluate the two current systems. A forum post sought participation of members and five (Doug Floer, Rod Davison, Larry Bell, Felim Power, and Alan McColl) stepped forward.

Complaints about the current points system focussed around a perceived unfairness caused by the ½ point allocation, and that the group championships were distorted against CW and toward SR and provided very little recognition for the season’s accomplishments for SCCBC drivers. The consensus on the current awards system was that it was seen as secretive and non-transparent, and often produced surprising and controversial results.

After reviewing a number of points systems in use, the committee settled on a system similar to ICSCC where the winner gets 25 points, second gets 23 and on down. All drivers finishing the race get 4 points, DNF gets 3 points, and DNS gets 1. The proposal recommends retaining the group championships for closed and open wheel but, due to its small size, bundling the sports racer championship into the open wheel group championship. The proposal recommends implementing a SCCBC club-based class championship to provide for a more achievable season goal for SCCBC members. SCCBC hosts more races than just CACC events and a club-based class membership is more representative of the actual competition that club members face. The proposal also recommends a minimum of 2.4 average cars per year compete in a class before they’d be eligible for a class championship, similar to CACC. All classes would be eligible for the group championship regardless of size but a point reduction system has been designed to mitigate the huge points advantage small classes would have in the group championships.

The committee felt that club class championships would correct the dirth of recognition for drivers at the annual banquet, and allow members to see which drivers are achieving in other classes, thus increasing the social cohesion at the banquet and in the club generally. The committee understood that there will be overlap between the CACC and SCCBC awards but felt that since the SCCBC-based awards were more comprehensive than CACC and competition hosted by SCCBC could grow and would be more representative. It was the consensus that the presentation of the CACC awards was anticlimactic and informal as it comes well after the season end.

On the subject of the subjective trophy/awards, the committee felt that they were full of tradition, still relevant and should remain in place but that the selection process should be opened to the full membership with a public solicitation of nominations done in September each year. The RDC and executive would be bound to select from these nominees.

The committee felt all recommendations would contribute to a more positive experience for club members and asked for their support. Some discussion ensued. Curt Storms commented that he was favourably inclined but would like to see the requirement for three dropped races be each year be removed from the proposal. Marc Ramsay commented that the recommended period for solicitation of nominations was too close to the banquet date. Others commented on whether the ICSCC classes could be successfully mapped to CACC classes. Rod Davison said a trial mapping was done successfully with only one class that was having difficulty and noted that the mapping is already being done today under the group championship point allocation. Rod Davison asked for a straw poll show of hands at the meeting and the majority indicated support for the proposal. A vote on the proposal was put off until the next meeting so members can have a chance to review and comment.

SCCBC  Year end Trophys----Nominies could be put forward by the membership and voted on by the membership
We race for class championships in CACC santion events
CACC class championships could be handed out at the banquat . Would be a good idea
O/A SCCBC Championships OW,CW,SR are a club championship. Just drop the Half pionts and every one is now equal.  (No drop races)  Lets not try to reinvent the Slick

Thanks for all your feedback, everyone. We've met to discuss, review and incorporate changes as appropriate and have put together a revision in the form of a three-part proposal. It's been emailed to all club members but you can also find it at this link. Please take some time to review. The item is on the agenda for this Wednesday's club meeting.

As this thread is approaching 1,110 views it seems that it has struck a cord with the club.  Thanks to the committee for taking this somewhat contentious issue on and working in a consensus building manner to craft the new system. 

Focusing on the celebration of achievement and acknowledgement of success is a hallmark of most all successful organizations.  The tricky bit is finding out what is considered an appropriate acknowledgement. 


I am very much in support of the result.  Good job and thanks for the time and effort.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend tonight.  So, I thought I'd provide my 2c worth here beforehand.

Thanks to the committee for taking this on, and for taking all the feedback into consideration.  This is no small task.

For the rule change, the only input I'd make at this point is that for the 'run group' awards, you're proposing that only the highest points earned in a given race day will go towards the championship.  If I'm reading this correctly it means that if a person ran in CW1 and CW2, came in 3rd in CW1 and 2nd in CW2 on one weekend that only the CW2 points would apply.  And, if those results were reversed on another weekend, that only the CW1 points would apply.  Making it all but impossible to seriously compete in either run group championship.  Which is a deterrent to run in 2 run groups if you actually cared about winning that championship.  Why not allow championship competition in any run groups you run in?

Cheers,
Darwin

Darwin wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 11:16am:

For the rule change, the only input I'd make at this point is that for the 'run group' awards, you're proposing that only the highest points earned in a given race day will go towards the championship.  If I'm reading this correctly it means that if a person ran in CW1 and CW2, came in 3rd in CW1 and 2nd in CW2 on one weekend that only the CW2 points would apply.  And, if those results were reversed on another weekend, that only the CW1 points would apply.  Making it all but impossible to seriously compete in either run group championship.  Which is a deterrent to run in 2 run groups if you actually cared about winning that championship.  Why not allow championship competition in any run groups you run in?

Thanks for picking this up, Darwin. I mixed up the terminology during the revisions. The group awards points will be accumulated by "major" groups  (OW and CW), not run groups. Here's the revised proposal for the group championships. My apologies for the mix up and thanks again for identifying it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16486180/sccbc/P%2BA_correction.jpg

Last nights club meeting went well with a couple of adjustments to the awards and club championship proposal it was voted in by the members.

Members now have two Championships to compete in CACC & SCCBC Championships how cool is that. ;)

The membership voted by a wide margin to approve the proposed policy changes to the SCCBC awards and points systems, and to add a club class championship to the 2015 year. The changes to the perennial awards are permanent but the changes to the points and the group and club championships are being implemented on a pilot basis for the 2015 season, to be reassessed for permanent implementation at the 2016 AGM. The text of the approved policy can be found at this link.

As the chair of the committee, I'd like to thank the membership and the executive for their support during the process and at the meetings. I'd especially like to thank the members of the committee (Rod Davison, Larry Bell, Alan McColl and Felim Power) that put much time and energy into developing this proposal. We're all very optimistic that this will make the experience of being a SCCBC club racer even more enjoyable.

As referenced in the "SCCBC Club Class Championship Awards" that Doug has posted and discussed at the club meeting this month, here is a draft of the proposed mapping of classes from CACC to ICSCC.  

This table is based on SCCBC members who participated in the Conference week-end over the past 2 years.

Please have a look at these and let me know if this mapping will somehow prevent you from collecting points during the Conference race weekend.  My goal is to accommodate every car/driver that is competing for SCCBC Class Points.

CACC Events		ICSCC Events
Class	Run Group	Class	Run Group
BSpec	CW1	GP	G2
GT1	CW1	GT1	G4
GT2	CW1	GT2	G4
GT3	CW1	GT3	G4
GTU	CW1	SPU	G1
IP1	CW1	ITE	G4
IP2	CW1	ITS	G2
IPE	CW1	RS	G4
GTL	CW2	GTL	G5
GTM	CW2	SPM	G1
GTO	CW2	SPO	G1
IP3	CW2	H4, FP	G2
PRO3	CW2	PRO3	G1
SM	CW2	SM, CSM	G2
ASR	OW/SR	ASR	G6
BSR	OW/SR	BSR	G6
FF	OW/SR	FF, CF	G3
FL	OW/SR	FL, FBX	G3
FV	OW/SR	FV	G6
S2000	OW/SR	S2	G6

For the classes below; it is my belief that there were no SCCBC members entered in these classes, or that they were entered as secondary entries to get more track time.

ICSCC Classes not currently eligible for SCCBC Class Championship Points.

FSR	G6
FA	G3
FC	G3
FM	G3
SRX	G3
CSR	G6
DSR	G6
ESR	G6
AP	G1
BP	G1
CP	G1
CR	G2
DP	G2
EP	G2
HP	G2
HT	G2
IP	G2
ITX	G2
PRO44	G2
PRO7	G2
AS	G4
ST	G4
EIP	G5
FIP	G5
HIP	G5
ITA	G5
ITB	G5
ITC	G5

Rod.

Hi Rod,
I expect to be running ST for all 3 races at Mission this year.
I believe the closest Class in CACC would be GTO.

Updated 2015-04-13: I have made a few corrections from the original after reviewing the ICSCC run groups for this year.
*H4 and ASR are no longer offered for ICSCC events.
** FBX is not mapped to FL as they are different run groups.

As referenced in the "SCCBC Club Class Championship Awards" that Doug has posted and discussed at the club meeting this month, here is a draft of the proposed mapping of classes from CACC to ICSCC.  

CACC Events		ICSCC Events
Class	Run Group	Class	Run Group
BSpec	CW1	GP	G2
GT1	CW1	GT1	G4
GT2	CW1	GT2	G4
GT3	CW1	GT3	G4
GTU	CW1	SPU	G1
IP1	CW1	ITE	G4
IP2	CW1	ITS	G2
IPE	CW1	RS	G4
GTL	CW2	GTL	G5
GTM	CW2	SPM	G1
GTO	CW2	SPO	G1
IP3	CW2	FP	G2
PRO3	CW2	PRO3	G1
SM	CW2	SM, CSM	G2
ASR	OW/SR	no mapping
BSR	OW/SR	BSR	G6
FF	OW/SR	FF, CF	G3
FL	OW/SR	FL	G3
FV	OW/SR	FV	G6
S2000	OW/SR	S2	G6

The following ICSCC Classes are not eligible for SCCBC Class Championship Points.

AP	G1
BP	G1
CP	G1
CR	G2
DP	G2
EP	G2
HP	G2
HT	G2
IP	G2
ITX	G2
PRO44	G2
PRO7	G2
FA	G3
FBX	G3
FC	G3
FM	G3
SRX	G3
AS	G4
SE46	G4
ST	G4
EIP	G5
FIP	G5
HIP	G5
ITA	G5
ITB	G5
ITC	G5
CSR	G6
DSR	G6
ESR	G6
FSR	G6
FFF500	G6

Rod.

ReEntry Racer wrote on Apr 10^th, 2015 at 10:30pm:

Hi Rod, I expect to be running ST for all 3 races at Mission this year. I believe the closest Class in CACC would be GTO.

Hi Larry,
As we discussed (offline) in order to get GTO points on conference weekend you will need to run SPO.  So, you have the following options:

a) run SPO for all Conference races and GTO for all CACC races - in this case your races on our Conference weekend will count toward both ICSCC and SCCBC championships.

b) run ST only in which case you will still accumulate Closed Wheel Championship points, but you will not get GTO Class points.

c) run both SPO and ST (G1 and G4) on the Conference weekend.  Your SPO finish will be counted toward your GTO points and your best score from SPO and ST will be counted toward your Closed Wheel Championship points.

Rod.

Perfect!
Thank you!  8-)