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Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement. (Read 8,279 times)
Pigpen
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Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Jul 19th, 2010 at 6:41pm
 
This is the second race weekend in a row that I have heard an enforcement policy that contradicts the supplementary regulations, on the conference weekend a driver was incorrectly penalised during a race because officials are reading things into the supplementary regulations that simply are not there. I discussed the regulation for the Conference weekend in my blog (http://olddatsunracer.blogspot.com/2010/06/race-rules-and-misinterpretations.htm...) a couple of weeks ago after the conference race so I won’t repeat it here.

For the record this was what was in the supplementary regs for the BCHMR this past weekend: "Tire Scrubbing: Tire scrubbing is not permitted at any time during Practice or Qualifying Sessions. Scrubbing is only permitted during the pace lap(s) preceding the initial green flag race start."

I keep hearing from officials enforcing the rules that you are only allowed to scrub tires behind the pace car; however the pace car is not even mentioned in the supplementary regulation. Several officials were surprised when I asked them the exact wording of the regulation, in that I had a fairly good idea what it said I knew they had not read it. I have found no mention of tire scrubbing in the CACC rule book either, so am really confused as to where this misinterpretation is coming from. To me the rule is plain Queen’s English and you can scrub tires right up to the time the first green flag is dropped even if there are 20 pace laps and no pace car.

Please note that the tire scrubbing regulation for the BCHMR weekend was a shorter version of the one used for conference race weekends, on Conference weekends you are allowed to scrub tires any time you are following the pace car during a race and prior to the initial green flag.

If SCCBC does not want tire scrubbing the supplementary regulations need to be rewritten and worded in a clear fashion. Until then the rules need to be enforced as written not as some officials would like them to be.
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #1 - Jul 20th, 2010 at 11:41am
 
The CACC Supp. Regs read exactly the same as ICSCC on tire scrubbing.  No mention of the Pace Car at all.
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Rob Dyck
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #2 - Jul 20th, 2010 at 6:01pm
 
just a thought....

if at the drivers meeting they say "scrubbing only behind the pace car"

does that constitute an amendment to the rule?
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Pigpen
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #3 - Jul 21st, 2010 at 4:09pm
 
I imagine it would, however I do not remember that ever being said at a drivers meeting.

However it would still be better if the offiicials applied the rules appled them as they were written or have the rules rewritten to reflrct what the organization wishes.
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #4 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 9:48am
 
Just to clarify this discussion – the offending ruling was during a Conference weekend and I believe by the ICSCC Steward(s). I offer my view – this is unofficial of course.

Although the person who is questioning enforcement of the “rules” said “I keep hearing from officials enforcing the rules that you are only allowed to scrub tires behind the pace car; however the pace car is not even mentioned in the supplementary regulation.”, he doesn’t say what officials he has heard from or which official made the erroneous call. He is also comparing two different sanctioning bodies as well as two different organizing clubs.

The supplementary regulation as posted by SCCBC is the same for CACC and ICSCC :

29. Tire scrubbing is not allowed at any time during practice or qualifying sessions. Scrubbing is allowed only on the pace laps
preceding the initial green flag starting a race, or under pace car control.


Seems pretty clear to me. Scrubbing is allowed on any pace laps preceding a green flag… and the pace car IS mentioned in the supp reg.

There is an order to, or precedence for the rules in order of application:

2.5       Precedence of Regulations
A.      The precedence of regulations shall be as follows:
i.      FIA regulations
ii.      ASN Canada FIA Inc. regulations
iii.      These regulations
iv.      CACC competition regulations issued by the individual discipline committees
v.      CACC bulletins
vi.      Series regulations
vii.      Event supplementary regulations
viii.      Instructions from CACC officials


The penalty, if any, would be determined by the Steward.

So, if Pigpen feels an injustice was done, he should have protested at the time. There is a documented process for that in both sanctioning bodies.

ReEntry Racer needs to actually read the Supplementary Regulations... because he failed to see the words “or under pace car control” in there

Rob Dyck – see order of precedence above, viii says that if there WAS an instruction given at the drivers meeting it would be in addition to or in clarification of the preceding rules. (Not contradictory)



As always, I am available for discussion any time…

Mike Kaerne
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Jordy Isaak
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #5 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 10:24am
 
Having found out about this rule the hard way last year, my current policy is to play it safe and not scrub tires unless there's a pace car out.  The minor potential improvement in performance on the first lap just isn't worth the potential stop and go penalty that would ruin my race.

That said, the rule does say "pace laps preceding the initial green flag starting a race, or under pace car control" (emphasis mine).  To me, that says that either condition is sufficient to allow scrubbing of tires.  If race officials are treating the "or" as an "and", we should adjust the wording in the supplementary regulations.
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #6 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 12:33pm
 
The protest would not be mine, and the same call has been made under both sanctioning bodies (ICSCC and CACC), Although at this point I am more concerned about the CACC races. It was the ICSCC Steward that overruled the call, unfortunately it was after the driver got black flagged (the remainder of the details do not need to be made public), and his call has no bearing on the CACCC rules - but should have been a heads up that the supplementry rules for the CACC weekends should have bean read by anyone enforcing those rules. I would prefer not to make names public however if someone in an official position were to ask I could give them.

Because I often have a radio in the Pits (I am 'Track Ops Mike') anyone around me does hear the calls and I do get questioned by upset crew when what they see as unfair call is made. I am not sure if the driver was black flagged during the vintage race, but I did hear Race Chair state that the driver should not be scrubbing tires on the pace lap after the light went out on the pace car, and it was very likely he was black flagged. I did know what the supplementary rules stated so I advised the crew of that car that I thought it was an incorrect call and they should read the supplementary rules for the exact wording.  In this case it did affect a US driver, and the last thing we need when we are trying to bring US entries to our track is bad press due to bad officiating. If something was said at the drivers meeting to add the pace car to the rule I did not hear it. That said the speakers at the two morning meetings were competing with noise from the pits including ‘Gator Girl’ driving by essentially drowning out everything being said.

I know I am going to be very visible in the pits on the CCGP weekend so would like to be sure there is no misinterpretation of the rule, even though it is not really my problem.

For anyone that has not taken the time to read the CACC supplementry regs for Rivers Edge they are here and should be read: http://www.sccbc.net/data/2010/2010CACCSupRegsMarch3.pdf. There are things in those rules I may be enforcing.

Mike Bailey
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #7 - Jul 26th, 2010 at 1:07pm
 
Jordy Isaak wrote on Jul 26th, 2010 at 10:24am:
That said, the rule does say "pace laps preceding the initial green flag starting a race, or under pace car control" (emphasis mine).  To me, that says that either condition is sufficient to allow scrubbing of tires.  If race officials are treating the "or" as an "and", we should adjust the wording in the supplementary regulations.


Thanks for that good summary Jordy, which is what I meant when I said "the pace car in not mentioned" as I was only taking issue with the first case (before the comma).  sloppy statement by me, and you fixed it up. so thanks.
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #8 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 9:00am
 
"There are things in those rules I may be enforcing. "

I am very curious - which rules and by what authority?
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 3:31pm
 
SR136 wrote on Jul 26th, 2010 at 9:48am:
Just to clarify this discussion – the offending ruling was during a Conference weekend and I believe by the ICSCC Steward(s). I offer my view – this is unofficial of course.

Although the person who is questioning enforcement of the “rules” said “I keep hearing from officials enforcing the rules that you are only allowed to scrub tires behind the pace car; however the pace car is not even mentioned in the supplementary regulation.”, he doesn’t say what officials he has heard from or which official made the erroneous call. He is also comparing two different sanctioning bodies as well as two different organizing clubs.

The supplementary regulation as posted by SCCBC is the same for CACC and ICSCC :

29. Tire scrubbing is not allowed at any time during practice or qualifying sessions. Scrubbing is allowed only on the pace laps
preceding the initial green flag starting a race, or under pace car control.


Seems pretty clear to me. Scrubbing is allowed on any pace laps preceding a green flag… and the pace car IS mentioned in the supp reg.

There is an order to, or precedence for the rules in order of application:

2.5       Precedence of Regulations
A.      The precedence of regulations shall be as follows:
i.      FIA regulations
ii.      ASN Canada FIA Inc. regulations
iii.      These regulations
iv.      CACC competition regulations issued by the individual discipline committees
v.      CACC bulletins
vi.      Series regulations
vii.      Event supplementary regulations
viii.      Instructions from CACC officials


Rob Dyck – see order of precedence above, viii says that if there WAS an instruction given at the drivers meeting it would be in addition to or in clarification of the preceding rules. (Not contradictory)



As always, I am available for discussion any time…

Mike Kaerne



I'm not arguing here but I remember at the drivers meeting a couple races ago hearing "scrubbing behind pace car only" and thought ok...got it. During formation the pace car went in and I watched the car in front of me continue to scrub his tires and thought he would get called in for a stop and go and he did.....

It was a teammate that got the penalty and it was discussed amongst our team and except for him, we had understood what was said by the steward at the drivers meeting.....

I thought it was pretty straight forward for that race anyways.......
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Pigpen
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #10 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 5:45pm
 
My statement was mostly to encourage everyone to read the Dups. One of the things I keep an eye on is trailers being loaded/unloaded in the Pit lanes during the race day; it is my understanding in talking to our president (Keith) that is one of the things Tack Ops is supposed to deal with. Cars going the wrong way in the pit lane is another (and believe it or not I have had to talk to one driver about that). Violators of these two rules have impeded other competitors and in the case of driving the wrong way can be potentially hazardous. Technically I think anyone in the club can police these rules, however it would be up to the race steward to impose a penalty if one were required.  There are probably a few other rules that Track Ops is supposed to be watching but for me those are the issues that tend to annoy other competitors and get brought to my attention.
If something was said about tire scrubbing at a drivers meeting I apparently missed it. Of course this is why I think the rules need to reflect what the people in authority want, if they have the authority to change/modify rules.  Of course it could be argued that the CACC rules are voted on and therefore can’t be modified without a vote. It can also be argued that a duly elected executive can change/modify rules (which is where I suspect the Supplementary regulations get their power). However I’m not sure if an appointed person has the authority to change/modify rules (this is a question Mike Kaerne is more qualified to answer). In my mind it is up to the SCCBC Executive to decide on the supplementary regulations for the track (with input from appointed officials if necessary). The appointed officials should then be enforcing the rules as written by our elected executive.
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Re: Tire Scrubbing & Rule enforcement.
Reply #11 - Jul 29th, 2010 at 6:47am
 
If you read CACC GCR 6.1 it tells you that the Supps need to be posted a month in advance, once approved by CACC, and cannot be changed prior to the event without the permission of the Steward. The Supps are drwan up by the organizing club but these Supps cannot conflict with the ASN or CACC rules. (Amazing what you find in the rule book, isn't it?)

I agree that there really is no excuse for driving the wrong way down a clearly marked paddock lane and to load a trailer in the paddock lane before the final checkered flag is not only dangerous, it displays an uncaring attitude towards fellow competitors. It is my understanding that these are items for the Paddock Marshal ("Gator Girl") to look after, although I agree that any club member should say something to offending individuals.

In my experience, Track Ops was responsible for the on track needs (such as straightening blocks), not enforcing any rules, but I suggest you ask your VP of Ops and/or your Pres for clarification.

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