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Rule Change? (Read 10,043 times)
Alan_McColl
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Rule Change?
Dec 16th, 2014 at 9:52am
 
The last race weekend i had a shift linkage bolt come loose which resulted in no gears so i plulled into the hot  pit lane had someone have a quick look to see what the problem was.
It was a 10 second fix how ever since i'm the pit crew mechanic and the only one that knows where to look for what was needed i pulled into the pits it was repaired so i tried to rejoin the race and was told that i could not rejion the race.

Since i'm not smart enough to read and remember all the rules i didn't know that was the rule.
Even F1 and NASCAR can pull into the garage to make repair and continue the race.

Most of us don't have a hole bunch of pit crew to do the work we do it all on our own so i'am proposing a rule change for next year Wink
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Doug F
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #1 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 10:09am
 
I totally agree. If you want to take several laps out of your race by pulling right into your pit for a repair, what difference does it make to the level of safety, to the officials or to your competitors in the race if you re-enter the heat. You're paying good money to race and should be allowed get the most out of it. Some teams have the luxury of posting crews in the hot pit but most of use are privateers with no one but ourselves to help out at times like that. I'm completely for a rule change that would allow safe re-entry after leaving the track and the hot pit for the paddock.
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ip2gsr
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #2 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 12:59pm
 
I understand where you are coming from since I am also a one man show but...  It's not a rule I would vote to approve. 

Race cars are driven by racing drivers who are not all that smart.  (I happen to see one this morning in the mirror.)  IMHO Most if not all would never keep the speed down in the paddock.  The resulting risk of injury to others in the paddock to the reward of getting in a few more laps by the driver is not worth it.  Risk vs Reward ratio kind of sucks if you ask me.   

You mentioned and I agree that the race is over so we are only talking about the difference between a DNF and likely a last place finish.  I believe the more sensible action is to pull into hot pits, turn off the motor and wait patiently till the end of the race.  Then on the checkered flag, pull out of hot pits, cross the timing loop that is under the Pit lane out (just behind the start finish tower) and stop by the gate at tech.  One of the nice guys at tech will open the gate and let you in to the tech area.  From my perspective you:
- didn't need to complete another lap with a broken car
- crossed the start finish loop and got your finishing position
- didn't require a rule change
- didn't add risk to others and yourself in the paddock
The only think you lost was a few laps of track time.  I think that is a far better Risk vs Reward ratio. 


Dave
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #3 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 1:53pm
 
I have to agree with Dave. I have seen far too many drivers flying through the paddock because for whatever reason, and adding more incentive to get back on track during a race won't help.

Also, with the current CACC rules, and I think there was a similar adoption in ICSCC this year, you no longer have to take the checker flag to 'finish' a race; you just have to complete 50% + 1 of the leader of your class, or if you are the sole competitor in your class, then the race leader.

If you break and need to go back into the pits, then there's a good chance your race is done. Hopefully you've made it past the 50%+1 point in the race, but if not, then as they say, 'That's racing!'
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Doug F
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #4 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 3:00pm
 
I've had a situation where I left the gas cap off and, with no one in the hot pits to help out, I retired from the race on the pace lap. That hurt.

I'm doubtful of the claim that drivers wouldn't abide by a paddock speed limit if they did have to pit briefly for some reason. That assumes the negative and is unnecessarily punitive. It's like saying that because there's a slight risk that you'd speed when you're late for work, we're not going to let you to drive to work late.

Why assume that drivers who were responsible enough to follow the speed limit 10 minutes prior wouldn't be responsible after returning from a minor repair? They know they've lost all possibility of winning the race. I doubt they would risk an accident by speeding on a return to pre-grid on the slight chance they'd still score in the points.

As a racer, I think we can agree that it's the thrill of competing that's the rush, not the win. That's why we pay hefty fees and, consequently, should be entitled to enjoy every minute of a race as long as it can be done safely. Assuming it can't be done safely is a mistake. If speeding is reported, then punish it, and punish it harshly. But don't punish drivers for something they didn't do on a hunch that they might.
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« Last Edit: Dec 16th, 2014 at 4:02pm by Doug F »  

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Alan_McColl
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #5 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 4:20pm
 
I have to agree with Doug that you assume that the drive is going to be a safety risk if he were allowed to re join is not true.
Then the same rule should apply if your late for pregrid. I have seen more drives come flying threw the pits after a race for what ever reasons not quite sure but does always appear to be the same guys.
We all know that speeding in the pit should not be tolerated it is unsafe so the speed limit should be dealt with at all times during the weekend.
I get so tired of the what if's that we are being choked to death with all the extreme safety meassures, do we  really have to have someone wipe our ass and do all the thinking for us. If a race car driver is that much of an airhead then he shouldn't be on the track.
It's not about winning it's about having fun and getting the best bang for you buck.
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Mike_Kaerne
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #6 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 6:42pm
 
I am a little concerned that Alan says he has not read the rules... in fact. Race Reg 2.4 says that by applying for a licence the driver agrees that they have read and understand the rules.

I agree with Dave as well, most drivers do not maintain a 15kph or less speed in the paddock, much less during a dash to get back on track. There have been fines and penalties given in the past, but due to a lack of a paddock marshal and too few stewards, that offence is not always dealt with. It is one of the most damaging possibilities that a spectator could be hurt by a speeding race car in the paddock...

As far as the regulation regarding re-entry from the paddock, the regulation is very clear -

"During a qualifying or race session, if a car is to be taken from the pits to the paddock, it may only return to the session after receiving approval from the Steward."

All a driver would have to do is stop and advise the steward why they are entering the paddock and that they intend to return... as long as they are going in for a repair (instead of changing tires or something) the steward would probably OK it... as long as it was fair of course... and if observed travelling too quickly through the paddock they probably would receive a penalty. The regulation is there more for maintaining a fair competition than regulating paddock speeds
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Doug F
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #7 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 7:01pm
 
Thanks for the clarification, Mike. So on the way through the hot pit, the driver seeks the permission of the steward, usually standing at the end of the hot pit, and then they can fix the car and re-enter? That seems to solve the problem.

Truthfully, I've read the rulebook and don't remember half of it. Lips Sealed
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Alan_McColl
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #8 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 9:44am
 
Mike i have to apologize for the poor Grammar i didn't make it to High School to busy playing with cars and motorcycles.
What i was trying to say is just because you have read it doesn't mean you remember it word for word.
So what you are saying is that if the steward of the day says it's ok for you to re enter the the track that makes it safer than if we had a rule allowing you to enter without the stewards ok.
What happens if the steward is having a bad day and decides no you can't rejoin or the steward isn't at the gate.
How is the steward going to monitor what my speed is from where he is standing at the gate.
We are allow to come in during practice and rejoin how is that different and safer whether it's Qualifing or race you are still up against the clock.
Maybe we should have a big sandwich board at pit entrance that says if you speed you are Disqualified.
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Fastist12
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #9 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 2:24pm
 
entering the paddock,,,,RACE IS OVER,,,  its a good rule, pregrid is already filling up,  theres lots going on in paddock,,hot pit lane is where you need to stop for repairs or forgotin procedures ,  not infavor of a change in that rule  Dave has explained it correckly
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alangbaker
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #10 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 5:04pm
 
But the rules already allow a steward to let you rejoin the race.

I think that there's a contradiction there that should be resolved.

Personally, I'm unlikely to rejoin simply because I don't think I could ever make it back in time to get in more than a lap, and that—to ME—doesn't seem worth it. But I don't think I should make that decision for every other racer out there.

So if the danger isn't so great that we need to outlaw the practice entirely (and leave it in the hands of the steward) then I think it's reasonable to ask if we should just change the rule to allow it. As has already been pointed out, it is allowed in practice.

I would also say that the rules should also include that a violation of the paddock speed limit should mean instant disqualification from that session, be it race, qualifying or practice, and there should perhaps even be a disqualification of the next non-practice session tacked on.

The paddock is no place for speeding.
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Mike_Kaerne
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #11 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 5:06pm
 
Alan Mc, this is a moot conversation since the regulation is very unlikely to change. The steward doesn't decide on permission to re-enter based on buddies, bad days or coin tosses. It is based on safety, need and fairness of competition. Yes. the steward would monitor your speed through the paddock. Yes, you are allowed to re-enter during practice because it's practice - it doesn't count as part of the competition...
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Doug F
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #12 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 8:50pm
 
Alan B. makes a pretty strong case for allowing re-entry. Mike, why do you say it's not likely that the regulation would be changed? Is this out of the club's or CACC's hands? Wouldn't this be part of the club rule changes?

Mike_Kaerne wrote on Dec 17th, 2014 at 5:06pm:
Alan Mc, this is a moot conversation since the regulation is very unlikely to change. The steward doesn't decide on permission to re-enter based on buddies, bad days or coin tosses. It is based on safety, need and fairness of competition. Yes. the steward would monitor your speed through the paddock. Yes, you are allowed to re-enter during practice because it's practice - it doesn't count as part of the competition...

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racestec
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #13 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 1:59pm
 
allowing a driver to come into the paddock to make "repairs" and to re-enter at will opens the door to all sorts of possible scenarios. A quick stop in the paddock to sureptitiously add a few bags of lead shot to make scales after the race, hmmmmm. 
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Alan_McColl
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Re: Rule Change?
Reply #14 - Dec 20th, 2014 at 10:12am
 
When do we take into count the safety of the driver that has just sprinted across the padock a couple times to do a mickey mouse repair when could have gone in to do it under a lot less pressure to do it right. So now he jumps back in the car is able to enter the race no matter how many laps is lost and chances are didn't buckle up properly is now totally fatigued how is that safe for him or his competitors. You enter the track from pregrid with out being check that you are buckle up there is no one to check when you leave the hot pits. We can't all have pits next to hot pit lane.
Maybe we can use some of the Ed Smart fun to put up several sandwich boards threw out the pits reminding everyone to watch thier speed or be DQ
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