Hey Gang,

I'm looking into either buying or building a car for IP and would love some feedback.  I'm most familiar with RWD V8's (drive a Gray Corvette in SoloSprint), but am contemplating an import for IP2 or 3 instead of prepping the Vette for IP1.  I'm a mechanic (amongst other things) and have built a bunch of muscle cars over the decades, and could probably handle much of the build work myself - other than the cage.  Race setup would be new...

My thoughts are to try to maximize the allowable HP in the class in the lightest package (the common goal for all of us) - but my personal experience tells me that is generally done with maximum displacement, however I suspect that may not always be the case with Japanese engines.  For example: 1.8L VTEC Acura (142 HP stock) compared to 2.5L Subaru (155 HP stock) in like-weight vehicles.  Does the Acura respond much better to the allowed IP2 mods than the Subaru and end up with the most HP, or is it pretty much already fully-tweaked out of the box?

The goal is also to haul the spare wheels and associated gear to the track in the car, instead of trailering it.  So, I'd need to be able to put temporary permits on it and drive it over an hour each way to Mission.  The joys of apartment living...

I'm pretty sure that spare wheels and such will not fit in the Vette even if it was gutted (it's a coupe not a hatch), and the tires/brakes budget is a bit of a deterrent.  I'm also thinking that a FWD/AWD might maximize my entertainment value considering all the rain we get at Mission.  With both of those taken into consideration - that might rule out a Camaro/Firebird IP1 as an option.

Ideally, I'd want to run in a class that has a healthy attendance - not in a class of 1 or 2 (I'm not sure of the numbers that often turn up).  And with that taken into consideration, may want to upgrade past IP into a more modified class as time goes on.

Thoughts/comments/suggestions?

Cheers,
Darwin.

Hi Darwin,

Here are a few ideas to get you started:

IP3:
1988-1991 Honda CRX or Civic Si - this car is "the easy button".  Probably half a dozen race at Mission and the CRX in particular has been proven fast.  I think a CRX Si has won the IP3 championship for the last 5 or 6 years.  Information on what to do to make them fast is easily available and they're light and cheap to run.  You can probably pick up a mid-pack example already built for under $5000.

1992-1993 Acura Integra GS-R - much harder to find and maintain than the CRX due to its rarity.  More expensive too.  They're also a bit more finicky to make fast, but they are right up there with the CRX in terms of speed, if not a touch faster once they're set up properly.  I race one of these, as does Amir Kani and a couple other guys.

1994-1997 Honda Del Sol VTEC and 1999-2000 Civic SiR - these cars are close cousins to the 1992-1993 GS-R, and much of what I said about the GS-R applies to them as well.  Curt Storms runs a Del Sol VTEC and is very competitive with it.

1990-1993 Mazda Miata (1.6L) - Nobody has done a full-on competitive build of one of these cars, but on paper at least it should be right there in terms of speed.  Tons of them around so they're cheap.  Spec Miatas run about 1-2 seconds off of a winning IP3 pace but have fewer allowable modifications, so that might be a decent place to start.

IP2

2001+ Honda S2000 - Garry Bone races one.  Last year he ran lap times around a second faster than the nearest contenders.  I would say that this is *the* car to have if you want to win in IP2 right now.

1992-1995 BMW 325is - On paper it's not as fast as the S2000 but apparently it responds very well to IP legal modifications.  Glen Mueller races one at Mission and his best time is still a second off of what the S2000 will run, but this is its first year so it should improve with more development.  There are more of these in the States, you could buy one that's prepped for the SCCA ITR class and run it here in IP2 without any modifications.

1988-1991 BMW M3 - Expensive, rare, not as quick as the S2000, but it's close.

Acura Integra Type-R - used to be the winning ticket until the S2000 showed up.

1994-2001 Acura Integra GS-R - again, was competitive in IP2 until the S2000 arrived on the scene

IP1

How much money do you have?  In the past the C5 Z06 has won this.  This year there aren't many people racing IP1, so I'm not sure what it would take to be competitive.

In terms of car counts, you'll typically see around a dozen cars in IP3, half that many in IP2 and then a couple IP1 cars.  If you're looking for lots of people to race against, IP3 is where it's at.

Hope that helps.

- Jordy

Lorenzo,
Can't resist a correction.  VTEC is all upper case.

Is NERDS uppercase or not?

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback (and the Integra HP correction - you've illustrated my point nicely about GM V8s being my comfort zone)!

Unfortunately, the storing/hauling the wheels & gear inside the car to the track thing is a fairly significant constraint - which would rule out the S2000, Del Sol, and the Miata along with my '99 FRC.  Unless I commit to also purchasing a trailer (and storing it somewhere), I'm limited to vehicles with more (enclosed) interior space.  It's very good to be aware of what the competition is, and how this constraint will affect my upper limits, though.

IP3:
1988-1991 Honda CRX or Civic Si: certainly on my radar, and if I go with an "easy button" approach will be on my short list.  Especially if I elect to purchase a prepped car.

1992-1993 Acura Integra GS-R: one of my early considerations - particularly if looking to max out the displacement in the class.  This deserves more investigation.

IP2:
1992-1995 BMW 325is: don't know much about BMWs - unless these are comparatively cost effective to operate, I'd probably be inclined to go with an F-Body (or my FRC) if running a RWD car.

Acura Integra Type-R: also one of my early considerations, but more pricey for a donor car than some of the alternatives.  However, the many Type-R improvements over the same year GS-R may translate into having to do fewer mods to get up and running - this may mitigate the higher start-up costs somewhat.

1994-2001 Acura Integra GS-R: also under consideration.  If I can find a prepped car and want to run more in the mid-field this may be a good 'for the money' option.

1998-2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS: I like the AWD, it's got a big engine (which a quick search of the RS forum reveals can likely be tweaked near 200 HP with IP mods) and weighs about the same as an Integra, and it's got the room to store/haul the wheels & gear.  There are lots of race parts available, and it might make a good platform to transition from IP to GT at a later date.  Has anyone run one of these at Mission?

IP1:
F-Body Camaro/Firebird if I go RWD and without a trailer (if the wheels will fit...).

My '99 Corvette FRC if I decide to significantly increase my budget and also get a trailer.  I'd be looking at $3-5k to complete the cage, other required IP mods, and a set of sticky tires (have been running street Nitto NT05's in SoloSprint so far).  This does not factor in any other mods beyond what I've done for SS4 SoloSprint (not much).  I figured I could probably sell the Vette and buy a prepped IP2/3 car and another (lesser) daily driver and be roughly even - this has been a big motivator.

Cheers,
Darwin.

Jordy - thanks for the advice/info.  And, they are relatively expensive donor cars too.

For the record, I've only been on the track at Mission 6 times (4 SoloSprint, 2 Novice) and it's only been dry twice (not including driver training where it rained on day 2).  I guess my perspective is a little skewed, eh?

There are a few 93 GS-R's on Craigslist in the $2500-$3700 range.  How much money do you figure a guy might shovel onto getting the car IP legal?

Cheers,
Darwin.

Darwin wrote on Sep 8^th, 2011 at 12:34pm:


Legal, safe and reliable?  Somewhere in the $3000-$5000 range if you do most of the work yourself.  If you want it to be fast as well, add another $3000-$5000 and several weeks worth of time in the garage on top of that.

Darwin,
I have a 92 GSR in that price range.