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CACC Rule Change Proposal (Read 24,489 times)
bunracer
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #30 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 5:56am
 
There seems to have been an omission in the printing of the IP4 rules as we had intended to include any OEM carb-ed car with a displacement of 1500cc or less AS WELL as a OEM T.B. F.I. equipped vehicles. In fact it's my recollection that except for one competitor who ditched IP4 to move to IP3 after an engine swap that the only other competitors in that class have been carb-ed cars.(just my recollection though) I know we had made the class inclusive of those cars specifically because that was what was (and is) running at the time.
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Jordy Isaak
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #31 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 6:02am
 
The rule as written:

"IP4 - vehicles with engine displacement up to 1500 cc and OEM Throttle Body injection"

Seems to me that this specifically allows throttle body injected cars that are under 1500cc.
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bunracer
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #32 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 7:07am
 
Despite what is written (and what was intended )how do you account for all the IP4 cars that have by your reckoning participated "illegally" because we/they didn't have T.B. F.I. but instead run the OEM carb ???
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Jordy Isaak
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #33 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 7:24am
 
My point is that you should change the wording of the rule to match the intent so that idiots like me don't get confused as to what can race in the class.

And I would say that nobody noticed that there were illegal cars in IP4 because nobody cared.  If the class gets more cars like you're saying it will, people will start caring and then that sloppily written rule will bite hard.
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Keith Robinson
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #34 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 8:48am
 
As Paul stated the class was meant to include single carbed cars (CRX,Civic,Tercel,Mazdas,Hyundai etc.) but the CACC secretary (I believe it was Sheree Wall at that time) got it wrong. This was pointed out to her, but it never got fixed. I'm sure the minutes of the meeting will confirm what I proposed Roll Eyes. Being the person that suggested the class, I know how it should have read and as Paul was at the meeting and remembers what was proposed then it should only be a technicality to get it fixed.
Jordy, sorry for the confusion, see you at the meeting.
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Fastist12
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #35 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 11:31am
 
If we choose to keep IP4 as a Championship Class in CACC , We also will then need to change the wording of the Rule.
IP4 Engine Disp, up to 1500cc ,
This then will allow all makes and models prepared to the IP rules to compete ,,,
This also brings up an New Problem
If there was only one IP4 Competitor, According to how the Club Championship is Determined , You could win your class championship in CACC and the club championship never competing against anyone. 9 points times 10 events = 90 points, 3 ICSCC events in another poorly attended class G or H production=27 points , For a total of 117 points, SCCBC club championship for 2011 was 115 points , and was strongly contested
The race Regs 14-1 does not break down a min car count in class to determin a Champion
The SCCBC Club Championship is the same

CW had 117 competitors
This directly effects 117 competitors
we all need to take a look at the BIG picture
We also should consider changing the race regs rule 14.1
Min of 3 cars in class to determin a champion
Changing this rule will aslo effect   SR and FL
This IP issue brings up so many problems




 
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TECHMAN
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #36 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 4:24pm
 
The SCCBC may need to look at the rules for the various club championships. Ask the executive about this.
I am hoping that someone has submitted a written proposal  for the changes to the CACC rules.
CACC and SCCBC championships are two different things.
Why not just adopt the SCCA Northwest region IT rules? We could grandfather the existing cars for one season. The major differences are the brake upgrades allowed in IP. Canadian market only cars, if there are any would have to be a side issue. This could fix a few issues with IP and maybe help with some of the GTS preparation rules.
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #37 - Nov 2nd, 2011 at 4:44pm
 
Jim,
Not necessarily a bad idea, one problem though is that SCCA IT eligibility is very specific to allow only certain vehicles. It was one of the driving reasons for not completely adopting the IT rules before. The rules in IP allow for any NA production vehicle to be eligible so long as they meet the displacement, weight and prep rules.
And unfortunately the way the the GTS rules are currently written, an IT prepped car is still not acceptable i.e.: needs fuel cell, window clips, fuel system etc, etc.
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Jordy Isaak
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #38 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 5:17am
 
Lorenzo, I proposed adopting SCCA IT rules a few years back and it was voted down by a large margin.  If somebody were to propose adopting SCCA IT rules this year, I would be in favour.  None of the existing competitive IP cars would become uncompetitive under the rule change, and a *ton* of cars that aren't competitive in IP would become competitive.

I think if we went this route we would have to add in the ITE class that's been proposed, because a few of our IP1 cars don't fall into an IT class.

If I remember correctly, every car that's currently raced at Mission in IP is placed competitively in an IT class, with the exception of a few of the IP1 cars.  They wouldn't be racing against anybody that they weren't racing against before the change, so I don't think they would mind.

If there's interest, I can go through the starting grids from the last few years and show who would go where, but off the top of my head:

ITE:

1x Corvette Z06
1x 330is (might be in ITR, is the one that races at Mission a '01-'06 non-ZHP model?)

Total car count: 2, plus any other entrants that take advantage of the new class.  Marc?

ITR:

2x Integra Type-R
1x S2000
1x 325is
1x E30 M3

Total car count: 5

ITS:

4x '92 Integra GS-R
1x Del Sol VTEC

Total car count: 5

ITA:

Basically every IP3 car that isn't a GS-R or Del Sol VTEC

Total car count: 6+

ITB/ITC:

IP4 cars
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #39 - Nov 3rd, 2011 at 8:38am
 
Well, if it makes sense and the membership can be convinced then give it a whirl.
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #40 - Nov 4th, 2011 at 9:22am
 
Jordy Isaak wrote on Nov 3rd, 2011 at 5:17am:
Lorenzo, I proposed adopting SCCA IT rules a few years back and it was voted down by a large margin.  If somebody were to propose adopting SCCA IT rules this year, I would be in favour.  None of the existing competitive IP cars would become uncompetitive under the rule change, and a *ton* of cars that aren't competitive in IP would become competitive.

I think if we went this route we would have to add in the ITE class that's been proposed, because a few of our IP1 cars don't fall into an IT class.

If I remember correctly, every car that's currently raced at Mission in IP is placed competitively in an IT class, with the exception of a few of the IP1 cars.  They wouldn't be racing against anybody that they weren't racing against before the change, so I don't think they would mind.

If there's interest, I can go through the starting grids from the last few years and show who would go where, but off the top of my head:

ITE:

1x Corvette Z06
1x 330is (might be in ITR, is the one that races at Mission a '01-'06 non-ZHP model?)

Total car count: 2, plus any other entrants that take advantage of the new class.  Marc?

ITR:

2x Integra Type-R
1x S2000
1x 325is
1x E30 M3

Total car count: 5

ITS:

4x '92 Integra GS-R
1x Del Sol VTEC

Total car count: 5

ITA:

Basically every IP3 car that isn't a GS-R or Del Sol VTEC

Total car count: 6+

ITB/ITC:

IP4 cars



+1 for this idea. Is there anyway a member can cast a, absentee vote? Living in the interior+conflicting schedule.
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Fastist12
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #41 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 8:46am
 
Jordy,  Iam not totally opposed to adopting the Scca IT Rules.
There are some cars with the grandfathered IP rulues , who run big brakes,  smaller wheel sizes,  battery placement,body trim.IT Rules would effect these cars, If The car is not classified within the SCCA Rule book it would not be eligible .  This would break up the IP3 Grid into 2 parts ITA/ITS ,  I have one of each car and would not be effected,I think we have to accept one or the other, not a mix of both rule books.
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TECHMAN
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #42 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 9:52am
 
How many cars with big brakes etc are we talking about? Creating an IPE class based on the Scca Nwr ITE rules would let everybody keep running and allow newly built cars not listed in the IT rules compete..
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Jordy Isaak
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Re: CACC Rule Change Proposal
Reply #43 - Nov 9th, 2011 at 5:42am
 
I did a bit of research on what cars currently run and where they would go if we switched to SCCA IT + ITE classes.  It's a pretty big tangent so I've started a new thread.

Curt, you make good points.  I've tried to address them in the new thread.
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