SCCBC Forum - SCCBC Club Points for 2015

PRO3

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #30 - Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:24pm

Good evening all,

Having watched the proceedings on this thread, and others, I felt that I’d put my couple of pennies in too. Can’t hurt, right? It’s a free and democratic society! I apologize in advance for the lengthy post, nor do I intend to offend anyone, just my point of view …… ☺

Firstly on the topic of awards. I am glad that I’m not the only one who finds the CACC presentation “dry”. So I would like to propose that since the SCCBC has the Banquet and the CACC have the Class awards, that the executives of these two groups get together and agree to amalgamate the presentation of said Class awards into the aforementioned Banquet. Voila, two birds ….. one stone!

I further believe that the executive of the SCCBC should allow for either awards, or at least recognition, for EVERY member who races in a series outside of CACC (ICSCC, SCCA etc.) who achieves any success in their respective classes and / or for being the “highest placed” SCCBC member in (for example) ICSCC Spec Miata ….. or SCCA FV …… etc. This would be in addition to the award that is given to the member who competes on an “international level”, or however that one goes ……. The onus would be on members to inform the executive of their “success”, in order to be recognised.

As a club member and an amateur racer I have to say that I could care less about the SCCBC championship. My goal is to do as well as I can within the CACC Class that I am running in. That being said, even if I don’t do well in my class, I still have my biggest trophy ….. my race car, which I am so pleased and proud to own, show off and race. I will add that I have spoken to at least 4 other drivers in the past weeks, about this topic, and they all have very similar sentiments.

Continued in the next post ……

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PRO3

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #31 - Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:25pm

The current SCCBC system is flawed and if it is to stay, it needs some tweaking, not necessarily re-inventing. That being said, if I were to be interested in running for this championship I would not agree to drop any races. If I make the effort and sacrifice to race every weekend I don’t see why I should have to give up hard earned points. On the other hand if the wheels fall off every race weekend and I DNF each race …….. that’s racing! Or if I have other commitments and can’t make it …… that’s life ……..

What we are doing here is grass roots, club racing. As far as I know none of us are being paid to drive, where our livelihood is at stake. Also, there are unfortunately no big carrots out there for us, in terms of tens of thousands of dollars in prize money, and there are no talent scouts from NASCAR, Indy or F1 sitting in the bleachers. So what does winning the club championship do for a driver? I know of at least 2 who “spent themselves” in winning it, to the point that their racing future was in doubt for the following year. I believe that if anything is to be re-vamped, it should be the “reward for winning” (and again I’d go with the CACC class championships).

For example; the winner of each class could get 100% off Race Entries for the following year, 2nd place 50% off and 3rd place 25% …….. “The Club” should work on sponsors (like KMS, Toyo etc., etc.) to provide monetary awards to 1st, 2nd & 3rd in class.

Finally, I think that any proposed changes to the Club Championship be brought up and discussed at the first drivers meeting of the year, where you are more likely to have a better representation of those who are affected by the proposed changes. I, for one am not able to make club meetings because I’m working to pay for my racing addiction ……

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Keith Robinson International License Offline I RACE;THEREFORE I AM! Posts: 1,454	Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015 Reply #32 - Feb 25^th, 2015 at 2:58pm I like the following year rewards idea although Pro3's suggestion is a little excessive; 3,2,1 race entries for 1st,2nd,3rd would still be a nice prize!
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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #33 - Feb 26^th, 2015 at 7:20pm

PRO3 wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:25pm:

The current SCCBC system is flawed and if it is to stay, it needs some tweaking, not necessarily re-inventing. That being said, if I were to be interested in running for this championship I would not agree to drop any races.

I think the consensus is that the provision to drop one race weekend will be removed from the proposal.

Quote:

On the other hand if the wheels fall off every race weekend and I DNF each race …….. that’s racing!

You're referring to the single point for a DNF? Personally, I think that someone who goes through all the trouble of loading up their car for the weekend, makes practice and qualifying, then fails to finish the race should get something more than the member who makes no effort and leaves their car in the garage. One point isn't going to hurt anyone, especially when the race winner gets 25.

Quote:

... the winner of each class could get 100% off Race Entries for the following year, 2nd place 50% off and 3rd place 25% ...

I'd suggest you bring that up as a separate proposal after this one has been dealt with.

Quote:

any proposed changes to the Club Championship be brought up and discussed at the first drivers meeting of the year

Can't vote at a driver's meeting. You need to come to the club meetings if you want to discuss and vote on the issues. That's what they're for.

Quote:

... SCCBC should allow for either awards, or at least recognition, for EVERY member who races in a series outside of CACC ...

Impossible to police. Every event that SCCBC *hosts* makes more sense, which is the basis for what we're proposing. Currently it encompasses CACC and ICSCC races but allows for future expansion. Tying the class championship award to CACC limits us to just CACC-sanctioned races.

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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #34 - Feb 28^th, 2015 at 5:25pm

Here's the excerpt from the AGM minutes on the points and awards proposal:

Doug Floer provided some background and described the proposal put forward by the Awards and Points System Review committee. The proposed awards and points system was the recommendation of a committee formed by the executive to evaluate the two current systems. A forum post sought participation of members and five (Doug Floer, Rod Davison, Larry Bell, Felim Power, and Alan McColl) stepped forward.

Complaints about the current points system focussed around a perceived unfairness caused by the ½ point allocation, and that the group championships were distorted against CW and toward SR and provided very little recognition for the season’s accomplishments for SCCBC drivers. The consensus on the current awards system was that it was seen as secretive and non-transparent, and often produced surprising and controversial results.

After reviewing a number of points systems in use, the committee settled on a system similar to ICSCC where the winner gets 25 points, second gets 23 and on down. All drivers finishing the race get 4 points, DNF gets 3 points, and DNS gets 1. The proposal recommends retaining the group championships for closed and open wheel but, due to its small size, bundling the sports racer championship into the open wheel group championship. The proposal recommends implementing a SCCBC club-based class championship to provide for a more achievable season goal for SCCBC members. SCCBC hosts more races than just CACC events and a club-based class membership is more representative of the actual competition that club members face. The proposal also recommends a minimum of 2.4 average cars per year compete in a class before they’d be eligible for a class championship, similar to CACC. All classes would be eligible for the group championship regardless of size but a point reduction system has been designed to mitigate the huge points advantage small classes would have in the group championships.

The committee felt that club class championships would correct the dirth of recognition for drivers at the annual banquet, and allow members to see which drivers are achieving in other classes, thus increasing the social cohesion at the banquet and in the club generally. The committee understood that there will be overlap between the CACC and SCCBC awards but felt that since the SCCBC-based awards were more comprehensive than CACC and competition hosted by SCCBC could grow and would be more representative. It was the consensus that the presentation of the CACC awards was anticlimactic and informal as it comes well after the season end.

On the subject of the subjective trophy/awards, the committee felt that they were full of tradition, still relevant and should remain in place but that the selection process should be opened to the full membership with a public solicitation of nominations done in September each year. The RDC and executive would be bound to select from these nominees.

The committee felt all recommendations would contribute to a more positive experience for club members and asked for their support. Some discussion ensued. Curt Storms commented that he was favourably inclined but would like to see the requirement for three dropped races be each year be removed from the proposal. Marc Ramsay commented that the recommended period for solicitation of nominations was too close to the banquet date. Others commented on whether the ICSCC classes could be successfully mapped to CACC classes. Rod Davison said a trial mapping was done successfully with only one class that was having difficulty and noted that the mapping is already being done today under the group championship point allocation. Rod Davison asked for a straw poll show of hands at the meeting and the majority indicated support for the proposal. A vote on the proposal was put off until the next meeting so members can have a chance to review and comment.

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Fastist12

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #35 - Mar 1^st, 2015 at 11:30pm

SCCBC Year end Trophys----Nominies could be put forward by the membership and voted on by the membership
We race for class championships in CACC santion events
CACC class championships could be handed out at the banquat . Would be a good idea
O/A SCCBC Championships OW,CW,SR are a club championship. Just drop the Half pionts and every one is now equal. (No drop races) Lets not try to reinvent the Slick

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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #36 - Apr 5^th, 2015 at 6:50pm

Thanks for all your feedback, everyone. We've met to discuss, review and incorporate changes as appropriate and have put together a revision in the form of a three-part proposal. It's been emailed to all club members but you can also find it at this link. Please take some time to review. The item is on the agenda for this Wednesday's club meeting.

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« Last Edit: Apr 5^th, 2015 at 9:11pm by Doug F »

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BEL

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #37 - Apr 6^th, 2015 at 8:33pm

As this thread is approaching 1,110 views it seems that it has struck a cord with the club. Thanks to the committee for taking this somewhat contentious issue on and working in a consensus building manner to craft the new system.

Focusing on the celebration of achievement and acknowledgement of success is a hallmark of most all successful organizations. The tricky bit is finding out what is considered an appropriate acknowledgement.

I am very much in support of the result. Good job and thanks for the time and effort.

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Darwin

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #38 - Apr 8^th, 2015 at 11:16am

Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend tonight. So, I thought I'd provide my 2c worth here beforehand.

Thanks to the committee for taking this on, and for taking all the feedback into consideration. This is no small task.

For the rule change, the only input I'd make at this point is that for the 'run group' awards, you're proposing that only the highest points earned in a given race day will go towards the championship. If I'm reading this correctly it means that if a person ran in CW1 and CW2, came in 3rd in CW1 and 2nd in CW2 on one weekend that only the CW2 points would apply. And, if those results were reversed on another weekend, that only the CW1 points would apply. Making it all but impossible to seriously compete in either run group championship. Which is a deterrent to run in 2 run groups if you actually cared about winning that championship. Why not allow championship competition in any run groups you run in?

Cheers,
Darwin

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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #39 - Apr 8^th, 2015 at 2:03pm

Darwin wrote on Apr 8^th, 2015 at 11:16am:

For the rule change, the only input I'd make at this point is that for the 'run group' awards, you're proposing that only the highest points earned in a given race day will go towards the championship. If I'm reading this correctly it means that if a person ran in CW1 and CW2, came in 3rd in CW1 and 2nd in CW2 on one weekend that only the CW2 points would apply. And, if those results were reversed on another weekend, that only the CW1 points would apply. Making it all but impossible to seriously compete in either run group championship. Which is a deterrent to run in 2 run groups if you actually cared about winning that championship. Why not allow championship competition in any run groups you run in?

Thanks for picking this up, Darwin. I mixed up the terminology during the revisions. The group awards points will be accumulated by "major" groups (OW and CW), not run groups. Here's the revised proposal for the group championships. My apologies for the mix up and thanks again for identifying it.

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« Last Edit: Apr 8^th, 2015 at 3:39pm by Doug F »

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Alan_McColl Senior Racer Offline Road racing, not street racing! Posts: 147	Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015 Reply #40 - Apr 9^th, 2015 at 2:11pm Last nights club meeting went well with a couple of adjustments to the awards and club championship proposal it was voted in by the members. Members now have two Championships to compete in CACC & SCCBC Championships how cool is that.
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Doug F

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #41 - Apr 10^th, 2015 at 8:35am

The membership voted by a wide margin to approve the proposed policy changes to the SCCBC awards and points systems, and to add a club class championship to the 2015 year. The changes to the perennial awards are permanent but the changes to the points and the group and club championships are being implemented on a pilot basis for the 2015 season, to be reassessed for permanent implementation at the 2016 AGM. The text of the approved policy can be found at this link.

As the chair of the committee, I'd like to thank the membership and the executive for their support during the process and at the meetings. I'd especially like to thank the members of the committee (Rod Davison, Larry Bell, Alan McColl and Felim Power) that put much time and energy into developing this proposal. We're all very optimistic that this will make the experience of being a SCCBC club racer even more enjoyable.

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Lightning Rod

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #42 - Apr 10^th, 2015 at 6:01pm

As referenced in the "SCCBC Club Class Championship Awards" that Doug has posted and discussed at the club meeting this month, here is a draft of the proposed mapping of classes from CACC to ICSCC.

This table is based on SCCBC members who participated in the Conference week-end over the past 2 years.

Please have a look at these and let me know if this mapping will somehow prevent you from collecting points during the Conference race weekend. My goal is to accommodate every car/driver that is competing for SCCBC Class Points.

CACC Events		ICSCC Events
Class	Run Group	Class	Run Group
BSpec	CW1	GP	G2
GT1	CW1	GT1	G4
GT2	CW1	GT2	G4
GT3	CW1	GT3	G4
GTU	CW1	SPU	G1
IP1	CW1	ITE	G4
IP2	CW1	ITS	G2
IPE	CW1	RS	G4
GTL	CW2	GTL	G5
GTM	CW2	SPM	G1
GTO	CW2	SPO	G1
IP3	CW2	H4, FP	G2
PRO3	CW2	PRO3	G1
SM	CW2	SM, CSM	G2
ASR	OW/SR	ASR	G6
BSR	OW/SR	BSR	G6
FF	OW/SR	FF, CF	G3
FL	OW/SR	FL, FBX	G3
FV	OW/SR	FV	G6
S2000	OW/SR	S2	G6

For the classes below; it is my belief that there were no SCCBC members entered in these classes, or that they were entered as secondary entries to get more track time.

ICSCC Classes not currently eligible for SCCBC Class Championship Points.

FSR	G6
FA	G3
FC	G3
FM	G3
SRX	G3
CSR	G6
DSR	G6
ESR	G6
AP	G1
BP	G1
CP	G1
CR	G2
DP	G2
EP	G2
HP	G2
HT	G2
IP	G2
ITX	G2
PRO44	G2
PRO7	G2
AS	G4
ST	G4
EIP	G5
FIP	G5
HIP	G5
ITA	G5
ITB	G5
ITC	G5

Rod.

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ReEntry Racer International License Offline If it has wheels, we'll race it... Posts: 727 Abbotsford BC	Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015 Reply #43 - Apr 10^th, 2015 at 10:30pm Hi Rod, I expect to be running ST for all 3 races at Mission this year. I believe the closest Class in CACC would be GTO.
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Lightning Rod

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Re: SCCBC Club Points for 2015
Reply #44 - Apr 13^th, 2015 at 2:24pm

Updated 2015-04-13: I have made a few corrections from the original after reviewing the ICSCC run groups for this year.
*H4 and ASR are no longer offered for ICSCC events.
** FBX is not mapped to FL as they are different run groups.

As referenced in the "SCCBC Club Class Championship Awards" that Doug has posted and discussed at the club meeting this month, here is a draft of the proposed mapping of classes from CACC to ICSCC.

CACC Events		ICSCC Events
Class	Run Group	Class	Run Group
BSpec	CW1	GP	G2
GT1	CW1	GT1	G4
GT2	CW1	GT2	G4
GT3	CW1	GT3	G4
GTU	CW1	SPU	G1
IP1	CW1	ITE	G4
IP2	CW1	ITS	G2
IPE	CW1	RS	G4
GTL	CW2	GTL	G5
GTM	CW2	SPM	G1
GTO	CW2	SPO	G1
IP3	CW2	FP	G2
PRO3	CW2	PRO3	G1
SM	CW2	SM, CSM	G2
ASR	OW/SR	no mapping
BSR	OW/SR	BSR	G6
FF	OW/SR	FF, CF	G3
FL	OW/SR	FL	G3
FV	OW/SR	FV	G6
S2000	OW/SR	S2	G6

The following ICSCC Classes are not eligible for SCCBC Class Championship Points.

AP	G1
BP	G1
CP	G1
CR	G2
DP	G2
EP	G2
HP	G2
HT	G2
IP	G2
ITX	G2
PRO44	G2
PRO7	G2
FA	G3
FBX	G3
FC	G3
FM	G3
SRX	G3
AS	G4
SE46	G4
ST	G4
EIP	G5
FIP	G5
HIP	G5
ITA	G5
ITB	G5
ITC	G5
CSR	G6
DSR	G6
ESR	G6
FSR	G6
FFF500	G6

Rod.

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